War Crimes in Gaza: How Israeli schools Militarise Children - Interview with Nurit Peled-Elhanan - YouTube

War Crimes in Gaza: How Israeli schools Militarise Children - Interview with Nurit Peled-Elhanan

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69,018 views Oct 5, 2024

🔴 A Pornography of Evil in Israeli school books to indoctrinate children for war.

In this powerful and eye-opening interview, renowned Israeli scholar Prof. Nurit Peled-Elhanan takes us deep into the hidden machinery behind Israel’s education system and how it fuels the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. As the mother of a daughter tragically killed in a Palestinian suicide bombing, Nurit’s insights carry a weight few can match—yet, despite her personal loss, she refuses to embrace hatred. Instead, she exposes how Israeli schoolbooks systematically dehumanize Palestinians, shaping young minds to see Arabs as enemies, and fueling a cycle of violence that leads to today’s war crimes in Gaza.

🔍 Discover the shocking truth: How the Holocaust narrative is manipulated to invoke fear in Israeli children—not of Germans, but of Arabs, now labeled as “Nazis” by Israeli leaders.

⚔️ Understand the transformation: How Israeli children, indoctrinated from an early age, grow into soldiers who carry out brutal acts without questioning their orders.

📚 Explore the research: Peled-Elhanan’s groundbreaking studies uncover the racism embedded in Israeli textbooks and media, revealing the disturbing connection between education and militarism.

This interview is not just a conversation; it’s a wake-up call.

Don’t miss this compelling dialogue about fear, indoctrination, and the critical role of education in shaping future generations.

Watch now to challenge what you thought you knew about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the role of education in perpetuating cycles of violence.

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00:00 Intro

06:55 Racism in Israeli Education

17:55 Manipulation and deception as strategy

20:30 Israel is not a democracy

26:40 The indoctrination of future soldiers

46:40 How perpetual victimhood justifies war crimes

01:00:10 The stereotype of the Palestinian terrorist

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<가자지구에서의 전쟁 범죄: 이스라엘 학교는 어떻게 아이들을 군사화하는가> 요약 및 평론

[요약: 교육이라는 이름의 무기화]

====

본 인터뷰는 이스라엘의 저명한 학자 누릿 펠레드-엘하난(Nurit Peled-Elhanan) 교수가 이스라엘 교육 시스템이 어떻게 아동들을 군사화하고 실존적 공포를 내면화하여 장차 군인이 되었을 때 비인도적 행위를 서슴지 않게 만드는지를 폭로하는 내용을 담고 있다. 펠레드-엘하난 교수는 팔레스타인 자살 폭탄 테러로 딸을 잃은 비극적인 개인사를 가지고 있음에도 불구하고, 증오 대신 이스라엘 내부의 구조적 문제를 직시하며 교육과 군사주의 사이의 불온한 연결 고리를 연구해 왔다.

1. 공포의 도구가 된 홀로코스트 교육

이스라엘 정체성의 핵심인 홀로코스트 교육은 과거의 교훈을 얻는 인도적 목적이 아니라, 아이들에게 세상 모든 비유대인은 유대인을 증오한다는 공포를 심어주는 도구로 사용된다. 교과서 속 홀로코스트 서사는 아동기부터 반복적으로 노출되며, 이는 독일인이 아닌 인접한 아랍인을 '새로운 나치'로 인식하게 만드는 심리적 기제로 작용한다. 이러한 '영구적 피해자 의식'은 가자지구와 서안지구에서 벌어지는 전쟁 범죄를 정당화하는 논리적 기반이 된다.

2. 타자의 삭제와 비인간화

이스라엘 교과서 내에서 팔레스타인인은 존재하지 않거나 오로지 '테러 위협'이라는 추상적 개념으로만 등장한다. 펠레드-엘하난 교수의 연구에 따르면, 팔레스타인인은 고유한 역사나 문화를 가진 인간이 아니라 '인구학적 위협' 혹은 '미개한 인종'으로 묘사된다. 심지어 이스라엘 국가 자체도 동양적 요소(아랍계 유대인, 팔레스타인 역사 등)를 철저히 삭제하고 서구화된 국가로 재포장하며, 모든 역사가 시오니즘과 함께 시작된 것처럼 가르친다.

3. 군사주의의 내면화와 무조건적 복종

이스라엘 아이들은 유치원 시절부터 전투원(Combatant)이 되는 것을 최고의 이상으로 교육받는다. 18세에 입대하는 이들은 이미 팔레스타인인을 인간으로 보지 않고 실존적 위협으로 간주하도록 길들여져 있으며, 이는 가자지구에서 상관의 명령을 의심 없이 수행하고 비인도적 폭력을 행사하는 군인을 양산하는 결과로 이어진다.

4. 내부적 차별과 우경화

차별은 외부(아랍인)뿐만 아니라 내부로도 향한다. 유럽 출신(아슈케나지) 유대인 중심의 주류 사회는 아랍계 유대인(미즈라히)이나 에티오피아 유대인의 문화를 경시하고 이들을 주변부로 밀어낸다. 또한, 현재 네타냐후 정부 하에서 비판적 목소리를 내는 학자나 교사들은 '테러 지지자'로 몰려 숙청되는 등 매카시즘적인 분위기가 팽배해 있다.

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[평론: 국가적 트라우마의 악순환과 교육의 배신]

누릿 펠레드-엘하난 교수의 통찰은 교육이 인간을 해방하는 수단이 아니라, 국가 폭력을 정당화하기 위한 '정신적 병영'으로 전락할 때 발생하는 참극을 여실히 보여준다.

1. 기억의 전유와 윤리적 파산

이 인터뷰에서 가장 충격적인 지점은 국가가 홀로코스트라는 인류사적 비극을 인종주의적 군사화를 위한 수단으로 전유했다는 폭로다. 홀로코스트 교육이 '다시는 이런 일이 반복되어서는 안 된다'는 보편적 인권의 교훈이 아니라, '우리가 강해지지 않으면 저들이 우리를 죽일 것'이라는 폐쇄적 민족주의와 결합할 때, 피해자의 서사는 가해의 면죄부로 변질된다. 이스라엘 리더들이 팔레스타인인을 '나치'나 '아말렉'으로 명명하는 것은 단순한 수사가 아니라, 상대의 인간성을 완전히 박탈하여 살해 가능한 존재로 규정하는 고도의 심리전이다.

2. 보이지 않는 가해자, 보이지 않는 피해자

교과서에서 팔레스타인인의 존재 자체를 지워버리는 '삭제의 정치학'은 가장 무서운 형태의 세뇌다. 증오보다 무서운 것이 무관심과 무지다. 이스라엘 청년들이 총을 겨누는 대상이 자신들과 똑같은 삶을 영위하는 인간임을 인지하지 못하게 만드는 교육 시스템은, 군인들을 도덕적 공백 상태로 몰아넣는다. 이는 전쟁 범죄를 수행하는 개개인의 악마성보다, 시스템이 어떻게 평범한 인간을 괴물로 만드는지를 보여준다는 점에서 한나 아렌트의 '악의 평범성'을 떠올리게 한다.

3. 내부 비판의 부재와 고립된 섬

펠레드-엘하난 교수가 겪은 탄압과 숙청의 과정은 이스라엘 사회가 민주주의적 자정 작용을 잃어가고 있음을 시사한다. 국가의 공식 서사에 의문을 제기하는 학자를 축출하는 사회는 결국 스스로를 고립시키고 극단주의로 치닫게 된다. "아무도 아무것도 하지 않는다"는 교수의 절망적인 토로는 국제 사회의 무기력함과 더불어, 이스라엘 내부의 비판적 지성이 질식당하고 있는 현실을 압축적으로 보여준다.

4. 결론: 교육의 회복을 위하여

결국 이 비극을 끝내기 위해서는 영토의 경계를 나누는 것보다, 아이들의 머릿속에 심어진 '심리적 장벽'을 허무는 것이 우선되어야 한다. 타자를 악마화하지 않고도 자신의 정체성을 유지할 수 있는 교육, 과거의 고통을 미래의 폭력으로 환전하지 않는 교육만이 이 파괴적인 순환을 끊을 수 있다. 펠레드-엘하난 교수의 외침은 이스라엘을 향한 비난을 넘어, 전 세계가 교육이라는 강력한 도구를 어떤 목적으로 사용하고 있는지에 대한 통렬한 경고장이다.

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세진님, 펠레드-엘하난 교수가 지적한 것처럼 교육을 통한 세뇌가 한 세대의 가치관을 어떻게 왜곡하는지 보면서 어떤 생각이 드셨나요?

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<War Crimes in Gaza: How Israeli Schools Militarise Children – Nurit Peled-Elhanan 인터뷰>에 대한
<1,000 단어 요약 + 평론>입니다.

1. 전체 요약 (핵심 주장 구조)

이 인터뷰의 중심 주장은 매우 명확합니다:

→ <이스라엘 교육 시스템은 어린 시절부터 팔레스타인을 ‘비인간화된 적’으로 구성하며, 그 결과 군사적 폭력이 자연스럽게 정당화된다>

누릿 펠레드-엘하난은 개인적 경험(딸이 팔레스타인 자살폭탄 공격으로 사망)을 출발점으로 삼지만, 감정적 복수 대신 구조 분석을 선택합니다.

그녀의 논지는 다음 세 층으로 전개됩니다:

① 교과서와 언어
② 홀로코스트 기억의 정치적 활용
③ 군사화된 시민 형성 구조

2. 교육 내용: “팔레스타인은 존재하지 않는다”

인터뷰에서 가장 반복되는 지적은 이것입니다:

→ <이스라엘 교과서에서는 팔레스타인이 지워져 있다>

“이 땅에는 갈등이 없다, 점령도 없다”
“팔레스타인은 존재하지 않는다”
아랍인은 추상적이고 위협적인 집단으로만 등장

이 점은 텍스트뿐 아니라 시각 자료에서도 나타납니다:

팔레스타인은 더럽고 폭력적인 이미지
이스라엘은 깨끗하고 문명화된 이미지

이러한 표현은 단순 편향이 아니라

→ <체계적 타자화(othering) 장치>로 작동합니다

3. “테러리스트” 프레임의 내면화

인터뷰에서 중요한 부분은 ‘테러’ 개념입니다.

어린 시절부터 “아랍인 = 테러리스트”
“테러는 추상적 위협이 아니라 일상적 공포”

이 결과:

→ 모든 팔레스타인은 잠재적 적으로 인식됨

이 과정은 단순 정보 전달이 아니라

→ <감정 구조의 형성>입니다

즉,

공포
불신
선제적 폭력 정당화

가 동시에 내면화됩니다.

4. 홀로코스트 교육의 역할

엘하난의 가장 논쟁적인 주장은 여기 있습니다:

→ <홀로코스트 교육이 도덕 교육이 아니라 공포 교육으로 작동한다>

핵심 특징:

반복적이고 충격적인 이미지 (수용소, 시체 등)
“항상 다시 일어날 수 있다”는 메시지
유대인은 영원한 피해자라는 정체성

이 구조는 다음으로 이어집니다:

→ “우리는 항상 위협받는다”
→ “선제적 폭력은 정당하다”

즉,

→ <피해 기억이 공격적 국가 정체성으로 전환됨>

5. 군사화: “아이 → 군인”의 자연스러운 전환

엘하난은 교육이 군대와 직접 연결된다고 주장합니다.

18세 의무복무
교실에서 이미 ‘적의 얼굴’을 학습
군대는 자연스러운 다음 단계

그 결과:

→ <명령을 질문하지 않는 병사 형성>

특히 강조되는 부분:

“가자와 서안에서 명령을 수행하는 병사들은 인간을 보지 않는다”
“그들은 이미 어린 시절에 ‘적’을 배웠다”

이는 개인의 도덕성 문제가 아니라

→ <사회적 생산 구조>로 제시됩니다

6. 인종화된 분류 구조

인터뷰에서는 이스라엘 내부의 계층 구조도 언급됩니다:

세 그룹:

① 유럽계 유대인 (우월한 집단)
② 중동/아랍계 유대인
③ 비유럽계 유대인 (에티오피아 등)

이 구조 속에서

→ 팔레스타인은 아예 인간 집단으로도 충분히 등장하지 않음

즉,

→ <내부 위계 + 외부 배제>가 동시에 작동

7. 언어와 의미 조작

엘하난은 “언어”를 매우 중요하게 봅니다.

“점령”이라는 단어 없음
“갈등”으로 축소
“보안”으로 재명명

이러한 언어는

→ 현실 인식을 구조적으로 제한

즉,

→ <언어가 현실을 가리는 장치로 작동>

8. 미디어와의 결합

교육만이 아니라 미디어도 연결됩니다:

군 출신 인력의 미디어 진출
자기검열
동일한 프레임 반복

결과:

→ 교육 + 미디어 = 동일한 인식 체계

9. 결론적 주장

엘하난의 핵심 결론은 이것입니다:

→ <현재의 폭력은 개인의 일탈이 아니라 교육 시스템의 결과다>

그리고 더 나아가:

→ 내부에서의 변화는 매우 어렵다

10. 평론: 이 인터뷰의 의미

(1) 가장 중요한 기여

이 인터뷰의 가장 강한 점은:

→ <폭력을 “군사 문제”가 아니라 “교육 문제”로 재구성>

이는 매우 중요한 전환입니다.

왜냐하면:

일반 분석: 안보, 테러, 전략
엘하난: 인식, 언어, 기억

즉,

→ <폭력의 문화적 생산 과정 분석>

(2) 설득력 높은 부분

다음 부분은 특히 설득력이 큼:

① 교과서 표현 분석
② 홀로코스트 기억의 정치화
③ 군사화된 사회 구조

이 세 가지는 실제로 서로 연결되어 있으며

→ 단일 시스템처럼 작동한다는 점이 잘 드러남

(3) 그러나 중요한 한계

이 인터뷰는 강력하지만 동시에 편향 위험도 존재합니다.

① 일반화 문제

이스라엘 사회 전체를 하나의 구조로 설명
내부 비판자, 대안 교육, 시민운동은 거의 언급되지 않음

→ 현실의 다양성이 축소됨

② 반대 증거 부족

예:

비군사적 교육 사례
평화 교육 프로그램
비판적 학자들

이런 요소는 거의 등장하지 않음

③ 감정적 프레임

엘하난은 개인적 상실을 경험한 인물입니다.

그럼에도 복수 대신 분석을 택했지만,

→ 전체 서술은 여전히 강한 도덕적 긴장을 포함

11. 구조적 해석 (세진님 관심과 연결)

이 인터뷰는 더 넓은 구조로 보면 다음과 연결됩니다:

(1) <교육 + 기억 + 군대> 3축 구조

교육 → 적 이미지 형성
기억 → 도덕 정당성
군대 → 행동 실행

→ 완전한 순환 구조

(2) 기억 정치

홀로코스트 → 피해자 정체성
현재 갈등 → 정당화

→ 과거 기억이 현재 폭력의 언어가 됨

(3) 비교 가능성

이 구조는 다른 사회에서도 발견됩니다:

일본: 전쟁 기억 축소/재구성
한국: 피해자 중심 기억 정치
미국: 안보 프레임 교육

12. 최종 평가

이 인터뷰를 한 문장으로 정리하면:

→ <이스라엘의 군사적 폭력은 교육과 기억 정치가 결합된 장기적 사회 생산물이다>

그러나 동시에:

→ <이 분석은 강력하지만, 내부 다양성과 반대 흐름을 충분히 포함하지는 않는다>

13. 한 줄 결론

<이 인터뷰는 “전쟁은 교실에서 시작된다”는 급진적이지만 중요한 문제 제기를 던진다>

원하시면 이어서:

👉 <이스라엘 내부 비판자 지도 (이 인터뷰 위치 포함)>
👉 <교육 vs 군대 vs 기억 정치 3축 구조 도식화>
👉 <한국·일본과의 비교 모델>

까지 더 깊게 연결해 드리겠습니다.

===

Transcript

they are not taught about the Palestinian and the conflict there no conflict there is no occupation there

are no Palestinians the whole country is ours and we inhabited they don't exist

but they do learn that anti-Semitism is worldwide that anyone who is not Jewish

is a Jew hater that we must keep a Jewish

majority so you know non-jewish minorities will not grow and become genocidal

welcome back to Soul Cube analytics where we dive into the pressing issues shaping our world today I'm your host

Thomas garat and in this episode we have the distinct honor of speaking again with Professor nid palet

elhanan imagine this you're a child sitting in a classroom flipping through

history books filled with horrific images of concentration camps executions

starvation M Graves and the faces of your own own ancestors edged in

Terror the Holocaust is everywhere it's not just history it's personal it's

drilled into your identity but here's the twist this fear this existential

Terror you being taught isn't focused on the Germans anymore no the Mortal threat

you are being told to fear comes from much closer to home it comes from your Arab neighbors

the ones Israel's leaders today call Nazis because nothing fuels unquestioning violence like the terror

of reliving the darkest chapters in Jewish history except this time you're not the

victim you are the soldier trained to see the face of every Arab as that of a new Nazi making it all too easy to pull

the trigger without ever asking why this is the world that new it lives

in Israel and the Virgin now exposes for the Insidious way it shapes young minds

as a mother who lost her daughter to a Palestinian suicide attack she could have easily joined the chorus of

hate but she didn't instead she asked the hard questions why do we grow up

fearing hating and dehumanizing the people living just beyond the wall how

does a nation use the trauma of its own past to fuel its future

Wars in her research nid lifts the Veil on how Israel's education system uses

the legacy of the Holocaust not as a lesson in preventing it but as a tool to

Justified the Holocaust is involved constantly not just to remind Israeli children of their history but to embed

in them a Relentless fear not of the Germans but of the Arabs and this fear

shapes them it primes them for military service it primes them to see Palestinians not

as human beings but as existential threat think about it by the time these

children grew up and put on a uniform they've been conditioned to see every Palestinian face as a danger every

protest is an act of War every stone thrown by a child as a bullet

fired and the results soldiers who carry out orders in Gaza and the West Bank

without ever questioning why they're doing it without ever seeing the human beings on the other

side but n's groundbreaking work doesn't stop at what's taught in textbooks it

goes deeper into the psy of a Nation at war with itself she shows us how

Holocaust trauma is wielded like a weapon in the classroom planting seeds

of fear that grow into acts of violence she shows us how the story of

the Jewish people's survival has been Twisted into a narrative that justifies

ation brutality and yes war crimes in this interview we are going to

unpack all of it we will be digging deep into how Israeli children are shaped

from basically day one to fear and hate and how this conditioning evolves into

the very acts of violence we see in Gaza today we will be asking the

uncomfortable question how does a history of Oppression become a blueprint

for perpetu in it but before we do a quick call to

action some of the best interviews on this channel are Shadow band which means YouTube is not presenting them to you

the fewer the latest example is my interview with James Bamford where we

discussed the truly amazing story that underlies Benjamin Nan's corruption

Scandal did you know that a Hollywood billionaire not only stole nuclear secrets from America but then sold them

to Israel and that n helped him to stay out of troubles to this very day and

then netan turned around and started to ask for favors hence The Bravery charges in Israel against him other examples are

the interviews with the so-called hammmer lawyer Stanley Kohan or the interview with the former Chief of Staff

of Colin Powell who told me that divite power in the test tube that Colin poell

showed the world when he testified at the UN just before the war war on Iraq

was actually so so if you're interested in content that apparently you're not supposed to

see content that goes against the mainstream narrative have a look at some

of the previous interviews that we have recorded for your pleasure and of course it really helps to spread the news if

you like And subscribe to this channel n pet elhanan actually Professor

nid pet elhanan I hardly dare to ask how are you

fine fine you you're understating is always yeah um for our viewers you were

kind enough to speak to me the second time the first time and I just looked was in February at this year this the

interview with you from the February did incredibly well I mean for such a small Channel and for such a niche topic yeah

you had more than 30,000 views yeah you have literally hundreds of comments on on uh in the comment section of the yeah

now the reason why I've asked you a second time is because in the first time we covered more General topics right uh

for example your family you come from a very very how shall I say this interesting and involved family involved

in the history in the making actually uh of the state of Israel yeah and this time I would really like to focus on

your work right now maybe I give it right away to you with my first question in a nutshell and without going into too

much detail how would you encapsulate the core of your work what is it exactly that you are doing that makes your work

so important and interesting I studied the discourse of

Education Israeli education okay but you do a very

specific thing yeah I did a lot of things I mean I studied many aspects of

um of this uh this course a language

written in oral language development at school classroom discourse and then I I discovered the

racism in classroom disc course especially towards Ethiopian

children and so I did about that um and then uh Second Language things

like that and then I started with the school books so I started to study the

the discourse of science which is at a base of educational

discourse and then I discovered the racism in the school books so uh this is

my yeah my current my last two books are about that

yeah and if anyone wonders how this relates to what's happening today how

would you answer this question because there's a there's a clear h I think I asked you this question in the first

time around and maybe I should be more specific because last time I wasn't there so my

take on this is that the indoctrination of Israeli children from early age on

from early life on has a correlation to what we see today in Gaza right and I

think you slightly disagreed when I said it this last when I said it the last time yeah because you know this is only

part of the education education is much larger you have a whole culture of uh

xenophobia of heterophobia of terrible fear of

others of traumatization through Holocaust Education which is my last

book so all these together you know uh form um and of course the

idealization of of being soldiers uh all this together

maybe amounts to what you see today in Gaza so textbooks are only part of it

yeah yeah so so you looked at the indoctrination that happens from within the classroom yeah so no no

indoctrination I didn't I never used this word Okay I uh I looked at the when

I studied textbooks I use I looked at the representation of what is called

others in Israeli school books because in Israel we have three I mean Israeli

was constituted against three groups of others the first one was uh diaspora

Jews East European Jews who were weak and feeble and studious and spiritual

and no muscles Zionism wanted Jews with muscles so they were despised especially

when they perished in the Holocaust the first Prime Minister benuron despised

them he said you can call me anti-sm I but I don't want anything to do with these Jews I'm ashamed of them and so on

and they set the tone um of the you know attitude towards

them East European Jews who perished like you know um ship to the slaughter and so on

so this was the first group before the Holocaust but also after and the second

group are the Arabs the Arabs who were assigned the role of our potential

exterminators after Israel befriended uh the other

Germany so again benon said that he's he's he's accepting the reparation money

from Germany in order to protect the country from the Nazi Arabs and that set

the tone against them and the third group is the non-european Jews who were brought to

Israel by the state to replace the you know the Jews For Whom the country was

meant to be and were exterminated uh but these Jews from Arab

countries mostly and African countries were not accepted as they are they only

wanted them bodily I mean to to maintain some kind

of majority within the borders but they had to give up their culture the

language their religious uh customs everything so these are the three groups

of others against whom Israel is constituted and we must ask

who are these Israelis you know it doesn't live too many but so this is what I wanted to see

how these groups are represented in school books my first book was solely

about Palestinians but my second book was about the three groups and the connection between like representation

of um uh Holocaust victims and the representation of the other

others okay because there is a connection between them okay and but I

never speak about indoctrination you know because in order to speak about indoctrination you have to study the

indoctrinated and I never studied that I mean you can see here and there but for

example in the um testimonies of soldiers from breaking the silence they always say

that I was brought up to think that whatever I do to the Palestinians will save us from another

Holocaust okay so here you see

indoctrination if we look at the Palestinians as as our group to be

examined yeah so and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm getting more careful yeah so in your research you have shown that Palestinian

identity is systematically erased and demonized in Israeli textbooks now how early do these lessons

begin as far as you can tell yeah and How Deeply are the ingrained again I need to be mindful

about semantics yeah how deeply are they ingrained in the minds of young Israeli

children they don't exist Palestinians don't exist in

Israeli Consciousness or in Israeli discourse or in Israeli textbooks today

they're not there there is a very abstract notion of Terror threat problem

to be solved Etc but the people themselves are not narrated The People ourselves are

not represented they are not discussed nobody sees them Israelis don't see Palestinians until they become soldiers

really they don't see them they don't have anything to do with them and they don't think about

them and I think even again I believe it was your brother who told me that he saw

the First Palestinian when he was like 25 or something like no no when he was a soldier or when he yeah okay okay yeah

now what are some as far if you have some ready so what are some examples of the most dangerous biases or ideological

manipulations against semantics that the general public might completely be unaware of when it comes to to how

Israeli children are taught about the Palestinian and the conflict they are

not taught about the Palestinian and the conflict there no conflict there is no occupation there are no Palestinians the

whole country is ours and we inhabit it they don't exist but they do learn that

anti-Semitism is worldwide that anyone who is not Jewish is a Jew

hater that we must keep a Jewish majority so you know non-jewish

minorities will not grow and become genocidal uh that we should never trust

anybody but ourselves and so on and so forth you see it's not that they learn

anything about the neighbors it they only learn that the neighbors very

abstractly are dangerous that's all I recall that you

said the Arabs are only portrayed as dark dirty and on dys whilst the Israeli

portrayal in the in the school books is like this pristine you know Swiss Village everything is clean and and so

on that that's because my book the first book you're talking about is only until

2009 today it's different they don't exist at all but in the 90s and

beginning of 2000 there was an attempt to talk about them okay and they talked

about the palestin iians and about the PLO a little bit and about the Palestinian citizens now the Palestinian

citizens were presented as a demographic threat because they multiply so so much

and as a developmental burden okay because they are primitive

by Nature this is some kind of rational

racialization they were treated like a race that never changes okay they they don't like modernity they don't want to

be developed and so on and so forth H but then they disappeared altogether

from the school books and uh there's one school book I talked about from 2003 that whenever

they talked about the Arab they don't say Palestinians ever Arab citizens of

Israel the visual was a racist icon of some kind of Alibaba with a camel

I make it very black and white yeah on purpose yeah but would you say that the Israeli um that the Israeli education

system functions as a kind of mechanism for brainwashing young children into accepting a permanent state of conflict

yeah I mean as adults of course of course they have to to carry on you know at the age of 18 they have to go and

carry on this regime of occupation so of course so so the

Omission the complete omission of Palestinians from Israel School books is in itself already a a type of

manipulation sorry manipulation yeah what other mechanisms the the sorry yeah

no what other mechanisms are there yeah the thing I mean the ideal of Zionism

and then of the state of Israel was to westernize

ourselves okay to be rid of the East uh of the Eastern European

Jew of the Eastern Arab Jew and so on and so forth and the Erasure of

Palestine was also its Erasure from the East and its

um acceptance into the West so we are a Western Country and everything that's

Eastern or Oriental is erased okay so it's not only the

Palestinians it's also the history the very long history of Jews

in Eastern Europe and in Muslim countries and in Ethiopia it's all

erased I mean history started with Zionism history starts when you come to

Israel before that nothing nothing happen nothing is important we don't know anything

really we don't learn anything for example nothing about almost nothing about the Turks who were here for

hundreds of years so this is the the idea to

westernize the place I interviewed Professor abish who

is not who is not only a historian himself but he's also an Arab chw yeah coming from Iraq and he told the story

that you know he and his family were lucky but most of the others were not really received well in Israel no no

they were not received well they were disinfected they were pushed to the

margins of society and to the margins of the country to the to the Frontier um they were dispossessed with

the secret deal between Iraq and and Israel yes yes all of them Yemen Morocco all of them but and uh to this day I

mean almost four generations after they and their you know grandchildren and

great grandchildren are still discriminated are still discriminated there's a new study that just came out

and shows that the discrimination and the Gap is getting bigger and not

smaller that that leads me to a question that's that's not that's not on my on my list

here I've interviewed multiple people who said that basically Israel is a democracy for the a real democracy also

for the Arab Jews within Israel yeah what's it's not a real democracy for the

Arab Jews because they had to give up so much in order to be accepted and they're

still not accepted I'll give you one example when

ER in literature studies in in in school there where they

study an Arab Jewish writer even if he was born in Israel but

his parents were from they call it Oriental uh

literature mrai literature even Sami Mikel who is the one of the greatest

authors in Israel and was the head of the of the human rights organization in

Israel and so on it was an important man and a wonderful author he is under the rubric of Oriental

literature and there's another one Doran who was born in Israel and she is Israeli she is under this rubric but

when they study um an author that came from Germany they don't say a German or

a European author no they Israeli because this is the unmarked this is the

Israeli so it's amazing really they are still

ethnicities now all the Jews who came not from Europe are gathered under one

label orientals you can you know from India to

Yemen they are all the same and I don't know if you know there is a very famous

uh photograph of M gal a photographer where he had he holds nine

pages from a book of 400 pages and and it's and it it says this is all you get

the west and the rest so all these people who came from so many countries

and lived a very rich and harmonious life for hundreds thousands of years all

of them together don't get more than nine pages in a history book of 400 so

it's still going on not to not to speak about the Ethiopians who don't get

anything I wasn't aware of this Photograph but I was aware of course just note down mayor gal nine out of 400

yeah the rest the west and the rest he calls it I I will look it up yeah but I was aware of course of the split between

the sapharic and as asheni Jews right and the the the split in the in the

society where we saw the you know the they choose from European descent U

being the majority you know in for example in the high court and and these kind of things yeah yeah yeah that's

what I said discrimination and the Gap is getting bigger not smaller yeah yeah

but the in the Army in the University everywhere in the market and there are

many you know uh videos that are done by sociologist and so on where the same

job is offered to everyone and the ashkanazi guy gets it and then Sor he

doesn't get it and so on even today ashkanazi are not uh the majority

anymore that's that's the thing exactly there is there's a demogra demographic

change yeah which may have to do and correct me if I'm wrong here but the the Orthodox Jews are involved here

because how was it M no I'm mixing two things up now so the

the Orthodox there's also a shift because recently there were I don't know

if it's now mandatory or not but there really serious discussions to include them in the military which they which they refuse they get a lot of children

they they live from from the state so so that's one group that's one group no but that's that's another story Al together

yeah because they don't compete in the market see they don't work because they

don't work yes yeah they study yes but we talk about I fully

agree but the women work the women work but there is a demograph this is

one part of the demographic shift that's happens which undermines the majority of

the Jews of the European descent and the other group is the ones that we just discussed the Arab Jews right both so

the Orthodox Jews and the Arab Jews get many more children than the Jews from

European not anymore Arab Jews are just like anybody else I mean they came with a lot

of children and you probably know the story of the kidnapping of yate children and

so on they came with a lot of children but today the young ones now I mean they're just like everybody else but for

the Orthodox it's it's an ideal to have many children and even the Arabs you know

they say they multiply so much it's not it's not true anymore I mean I I interviewed Dan Perry from the

associate press uh a week ago yeah and he said they get seven children on

average per per family where the the the ultra Orthodox yeah yes that's right I

once had a a student who was a teacher with me when I taught high school and

then she came to University and she came to my course and so we ask her you know how

are you how are you how many children you have how many children you have and I said I have four children and she

said well in your sector I believe it is something she had eight in her sector

even eight is not enough yeah okay coming back to the topic of our interview here yeah from

children to soldiers yeah once the children yeah which on my tongue and in my mind is

still the word indoctrination because somehow for me it feels like some type of indoctrination but but I fully accept

what you said yeah but once these children grow into young adults yeah and serve and serve in the military how do

the ideas that they learned in school translate into real world violence which we are seeing today yeah how does the

psychological groundwork that they kind of pick up in school yeah in early childhood in childhood evolve when these

individuals are put in positions of power like we're seeing them uh who can ask that all the soldiers in the world

American European Russian Ukrainian yeah all the same Soldier is a

sold and that's what they do and that's horrible there are many differ there are

very few cases of refusal everywhere in the world everywhere in the world Americans in

Iraq British in Iraq uh Russians and so on very few I

mean this uh this process of soldiering is is is very very

uh it's really taming it's not you know it's taming and once you're tamed you do what

you have to do uh some of them do it happily yes but some of them say well

there are people who know much more than me and the one above they know what they're doing and some of them you know

they just want to get home I I I would argue that there's a real difference between Israel and let's

say the United States or even Russia yeah with the with the exceptions of the Orthodox Jews in in Israel almost

everybody is in the Army yeah right in America they take only the the poor ones

H yes in Israel everybody goes to the army yes and it becomes an ideal you see an ideal to be a warrior to be a fighter

to be a combatant yes this is really indoctrination because they do it from very early age from

kindergarten and uh it's very hard to find that very hard it was hard for me to fight it in my children but yes this

is one of the strongest I mean this is one of the of the great victories of of

Israel education that to be a combatant to be a fighter and those who refuse

after that you know after being in the Army for a while and they realize what they are doing and they refuse like my children

did um it's it's it's a very it's a very tough process of this illusionment

uh to realize what it's really all about it's not about protecting your country it's not about defending people it's

about something else but only few of them realize that H the others just

don't my next question kind of is almost self-explanatory yeah so

are there psychological mechanisms that you believe are intentionally designed to

desensitize let's say as I told you all the soldiers in the world do that I mean Americans went to

the other side of the world to do that why I mean in Israel

you you can say it's too close it's so close that maybe really the threat is is

is near the threat is felt in every house but Iraq what do they have to do

there why and they go not only for the money

some kind of of of ideologization and self- indoctrination

that they are doing the good thing the right thing and ER I don't know I don't know

but a soldier is a soldier everywhere that's the point in so Iraq is is is an extreme

example yeah but a very fitting one yeah yeah didn't know anything about the place they didn't know anything about

why they're going but they went to save America save

America I mean or Vietnam Etc you know all these things the soldiers or some of

the soldiers in Iraq engraved the twin towers and the Pentagon on their head

yeah sorry on the helmet yeah this shows the extent to which they were indeed indoctrinated

although President Bush later said I never said s had anything to do with

with 911 but the just definitely believed it and as a and as a consequence of they as brutal and as

destructive so what but he did never mind even if he had you don't go and

kill thousands of people ah okay just for that I mean there are other

ways it comes from the top leadership so the key moment for me was when mlin

Albright said on live television she found it Justified that uh uh

500,000 Iraqi children were staffed to death between the first and the second uh war in in Iraq yeah if that happened

to America from any other Nation yeah we would have had the third world war

already yeah but that also shows something about the indoctrination again

uh of the American population this is coming from the from the top leadership yeah another example I

interviewed Colonel Larry wierson who was was the chief of staff of Colin poell yeah and I'm sure you remember

this iconic image where Colin Powell in the UN showed this this glass tube with the white powder saying that Saddam

Hussein had the weapons of mass destruction yeah Larry Wilkerson told me that in

that test tube was actually salt yeah so I mean of course they will not take a

dangerous substance into the you know into the UN yeah but never nevertheless

it was it was the epiom of not only deception but also

indoctrination yeah that's how we live yeah so again from from your point of

from your research yeah what other mechanisms or strategies are being used

to to to to cultivate generation after generation of the generation of uh of

Israelis I don't want to say child soldiers because they're not although I mean we we both know that the neocodex

develops at least till 2123 so if someone goes into the into the war like in Vietnam average age was 19 they go

into the war without having the full mental capacity yet so in in Israel they go when in the Army what age 18 18 same

thing yeah well I think what what other the main thing is Holocaust Education Holocaust is the main component of

Israeli identity it's more than Zionism it's more than anything else Judaism

it's a holocaust and this is

um entrench into them from very early age in a horrible in a horrible way I

mean they are being traumatized year after year after year with the most

horrendous photographs and stories and reports about sadism and perversion and

the extermination and so on and uh nobody ever studied what what

the effect is but uh I'm sure it creates heterophobic

people um you know Susan Zang writes that she

accidentally came across a holocaust uh photograph when she was 12 and she said

my life is divided to before and after can you imagine

an Israeli child from the age of three and four fed with these stories and these

horrible horrible photographs so this is the main thing and the the rationale for this education

was after the 73 setback war of

Israel many people started leaving the country many young people they said okay this is not for

me and the idea was to find something that will force them to stay and be

loyal to the state so how do you do that you frighten them to death okay by by

the Gentiles and this is the main uh message of Holocaust Education it

happened to the Jews because they did not have a state and an army that's it from very young

age from very young from kindergarten and U I believe that this

traumatization and retraumatization for so many years does something to you

although there I haven't seen a research that really examines it but there are

books you know no haut wrote a wonderful book The Girl Who Stole My Holocaust

Aram Borg wrote you know to um to beat

Hitler and so on many people wrote about this what it did to

them so um I don't think you you can become normal after that it's not me

saying that it's it's people you know more more into the subject than me like

Professor Han aanka she says we teach them that we are victims nothing else we

teach them the pornography of evil year after year after year what do you expect after that what

kind of people okay and um this fear this this this

horror is ingrained you don't get rid of it ever

ever um I mean on one hand these victims are shown in the most contemptuous

way naked abused uh wounded Dead skeletons you

have it in school books so this is like disrespect for the dead terrible

disrespect for the dead and um and also you know you can say that when you show

naked children there's a law against child pornography but this the law does not

apply to Holocaust victims why not so on one hand is shown in this demeaning

way and from a Nazi point of view because all the photographs are taken

from Nazi archives so this Nazi perspective of the Jews come through as

factual as objective on the other hand it's a horrible I mean it's a worst

process of traumatization and the idea is that if we are not

alert it will happen again it's hovering above us all the time it's imminent but

it will come from the hands of the Arabs the Nazi Arabs even now in Gaza you see

the president the Prime Minister everybody calls the the the gazans Nazis Hamas are Nazis everybody's Nazi and

this is not um it is not a by mistake because if

they are Nazis you have to treat them like Nazis and bombard them like church

WIll bombarded The Dresden and so on but also when you say they're Nazis then the

threat is so frightening that you'll do everything to get rid of it everything

so this is the main thing the Holocaust Education

and high people in the Ministry of Education said that to punch them in the

guts okay so they the the the fire of Revenge will not die out but the revenge

is not against the Germans and the European collaborators but against the

subjugated rightless starved Palestinians who are suddenly have the

image of Almighty Nazis okay so I think this is the main

thing you said a couple of things yes and I observed the shift in language uh

from the beginning Al right after after October the 7 it was Isis yeah netan yeah and then after I don't know a

couple of weeks it changed indeed to na which indicates that that's again that's

a that's a conscious strategy yeah they're trying to to maximize yeah to

maximize on what they already have Indo and soldiers saying we are going to get the Nazis and so on they don't even know

most of them I believe who the Nazis were but same you know

so I think that's one of the reasons why what happened October the 7th and I

think we we can agree I spoke with the number of of subject Med experts on this on this topic it really went to I don't

want to say I don't want to say this subconscious but it really went to the core of jewishness this attack from

October the 7th because it's kind of a self self-fulfilling but a fulfilling prophecy right they want to get us yeah

right no it's also they didn't do it because of the siege they didn't do it

because they were starved by us they didn't do it because we destroyed their water system and they saw the swimming

pools and the sprinkles in the kibo no they did it because we're Jewish and everybody accepts that you

see they are the Third Reich okay these starved boys who came

to to to to rape and kill and I mean they were crazy they were

horrible but the context they take it out of context they do it also in the

books and in matriculation exams they give you uh a

list of um terrorist attacks by Palestinians without

context and they say these attacks made

Israelis identify with Holocaust Survivors and then they ask about it in

the matriculation exam choose one event and say how this event made Israel is ID

identify with Holocaust Survivors and this is in a chapter that is called the formation of Holocaust remembrance so

all you have there are these you know Palestinian terrorist attacks without

context and they did it because we are Jewish that's all and then our

jewishness I mean the vulnerability and the weakness Etc came to also during the

the Gulf War everybody was sure we are new sh yeah this is it this is the main the

main factor and it's not only Israelis yeah so right after October the 7th yeah

everybody is uh falls into the Trap of course yeah every every interview that I

saw in the first virtually every single interview started with the question what

do you think about October the 7th yeah like if there's no prehistory yeah and

then of course Ceres UN General Secretary was heavily criticized yeah he

was even requested to step down for his comments that October the 7th did not happen in the vacuum right yeah it's

very hard for people and uh of course Israel is and the you know the IRA

definition of anti-semitism and so on it all helps yeah yeah maybe you briefly want

to explain so IRA has a presented a how shall I say it a very

interpretable definition of of yeah antism and anti- Zionism and anti-israel

is the same thing so if you criticize Israel You're anti-semitic and it

works that's the question that I'm asking myself yeah I mean you can call an apple an orange as often as you like

but the the Apple will never become an orange an orange it will always stay an Apple so you can conflate anti-Semitism

with anti-seismic the everybody

does the German government does the American government does American universities do in Holland they do in

England they do everywhere in France every yeah but this is top down I completely get I completely get the

strategy because with that strategy you stifle any valid critic against the

state of Israel I completely understand why the leadership who are pro Israel do that yeah but that's why I say it's top

down but the people I'm talking with yeah they don't take

it they don't count for the moment they don't yes

yes okay um when we go into so out of

the classroom and Direction media culture and the reinforcement of militarism yeah textbooks and you said

it already yeah so textbooks are just one piece of the puzle yeah so how does the media the Israeli media perpetuate

this ideas I mean is completely censored self censored I just wanted to say

taking into consideration that the military even has a very strong influence on the media by what what was

it they have they provide trainings they provide career path from the military into the media so the media is pretty

much saturated with former logically because everybody almost goes into the into the army yeah not because of that I

think the politicians not the Army also yeah but are also from the from the Army

yeah but you know no today no most of them didn't go to the Army yeah today they ring government true yeah yeah the

yeah either they weren't fit mentally or they weren't fit because they were criminals or they just deserve they

didn't go but um the media in Israel has always been self censored all the time

we all we hear about our brave soldiers and so on and so forth that's all that's

all out of out of curiosity because I interviewed Gideon Ley twice last time

uh when the Twin assassinations in Lebanon and in Iraq sorry in Iran happened yeah but he works for the hares

so what what's your opinion in terms of you know being being self-centered for a I

think liberal hares is liberal in Israel again I'm not an expert most yeah most

yeah but even there you know you you have a limit so you have G Le I mean

they have these stars who are their opinioned but not uh yeah yeah it's it's

the most liberal the others are completely

bought again a question that I believe I know the answer but that there seems to be a national narrative and we know that

they built around this whole victimhood survival and the necess the necessity of military actions yeah left and right

yeah yeah that comes from the Holocaust we are the hereditary victims

and we must arm ourselves to our teeth in order to

survive but how far can this go I mean does it really prevent any critical

thinking there is critical thinking a bit a little bit yeah where where I

don't know gon Ley yeah okay yeah but but not not in the government I mean to I mean I should

have said it actually at the at the begin yeah so we recording this interview just is it now three or four days three or four days after this

incredible uh Israeli attack on the libanon with the on the first day two thou 3,000 Pages went off and on the

second day I don't know how many walkie talkies and other electronic devices in Lebanon supposedly all owned by Hamas

uh you know affiliated with Hamas yeah and I think I think yesterday a massive

bombardment of Israel onto libanon took place we saw I saw on

videos huge explosions with huge mushroom clouds I this is no this is no longer a small you know border dispute

shooting Rockets left and right yeah today there were Rockets near my

house Rockets from whom from Lebanon hundreds of from Lebanon hundreds of rockets in the north of the country

yeah everything is paralyzed no school nothing nobody leaves the house yeah I I I actually saw the north

of Liber sorry the North of Israel is deserted so 60,000 people have have

evacuated The Zone The Very North now they came a bit more towards hia and I live between AKA and hia so

they bombarded this area because in this area you have Raphael which is uh where

they develop weaponry and so on and you also have um all kinds of other things

but uh they didn't hit Rafael they hit residential

areas a few people died and many people are wounded and so on so forth yeah I'm

not there now but uh I live there and and every bombardment of that sort gives

of course netan and his rightwing government more ammunition to proceed the way they

do yeah I mean I was always wondering for for people like you with with how

shall I say this with with the knowledge that you have yeah and from my perspective the

objectivity that you have you look at the actual root cause of the issue yeah

living in Israel being actually bombarded from both sides I mean

metaphorically speaking bombarded from both sides yeah how how do you how do you cope with living in Israel if I if I

may ask I live in my house

you yeah but but you see the drama unfolding you in the so you're virtually

in the midst of it yeah you know the the actual as I as I said already the causes

the real causes going back decades yeah and we all see an escalation coming yeah

the you know how how does anyone live like this I mean there are the let's say the normal Israelis they are to a

certain extent indoctrinated but then the people like you or Gideon Ley or or or abish or name

live in Israel but Ah that's true he went to London yeah I don't think we matter I think

it's it's the simple people who who who lose their work who lose their

livelihood ever since uh October who lost their

homes uh and nobody cares for them nobody cares for them and there are

hundred of thousand of such people from the north and from the South were just

destitute destitute completely they have no house no work no livelihood no school

nothing these are the people to think about and nobody help them it doesn't matter what they think about it but they

are the victims the N that what I heard that netan is using now to uh to prepare war

with Lebanon is to to ensure that the 60,000 refugees from Israel from

Israel's very North can go back to the region before the winter that's I know

it's an argument I mean I I know but but the real reasons are we we will never know we know he wants the war to go

on yes that's very interesting one so please tell us from your perspective why do you no I won't go into it but

uh it's obvious I think he wants the war to go on in order to for the government

not to fall and so on how long can he still do that I mean wherever I look

also I mean I I stopped consuming news from our Western media bubble yeah I go outside

Global th yeah and wherever you go everyone talks about this Netanyahu has

a self-interest yeah to stay out of jail to prolong this War I mean if you really

if you really consider that depth of this tragedy it's just incredible that

one I mean it's it's very easy to to to think you know get rid of netan and you have to solve the problem no yeah that's

that's not the case yeah but there is certainly a a self-interest and and again Global the leader of the global

South are very lucid about that fact only by us here in the western media yeah 16% of the world population where

we get where we get virtually the same news bits sound bites yeah no matter in

which in which language it's it's presented yeah we're living in this in this bubble with with

totally deformed information and I can imagine the most and foremost in Israel

too the point is that nobody can do anything that's the point people are

being killed as we speak children are being killed and wounded and maimed as we speak and nobody can do anything

everybody talks and talks and talks nobody does anything to stop it but I

not other not again I mean renew demonstrations against the government in Israel so

what so what all the countries you know in the

world do nothing just as they didn't do anything during the Holocaust same

thing nobody does anything to stop it not America not Europe

not the Arab countries nobody nobody does anything to

stop it and that's the main thing I mean people can talk From Here to

Eternity do you have any inclination by that this maybe that's

Humanity that's it it happened so many times that's

Humanity nobody does anything when it happens in Sudan nobody does anything when it happens in China nobody does

anything when it happens in Africa South America no this is Humanity this is

human nature I mean you live your life sometimes you are shocked sometimes

you are there but you don't really do anything nobody does anything and the

few who do you know don't matter that's all I think I think this

time with Gaza it's a bit again maybe completely wrong yeah but I think it's a bit different because we have this

virtually Liv streamed genocide and again I know using

the word genocide is is is is Laden because you very quickly go into a semantic discussion what is genocide and

what is not it's judicial discussion it's a legal

discussion whether it is or not genocide but uh you know one of the most

important genocide scholars in the world Goldberg wrote that it was a

genocide but legal people say you cannot call it genocide because you cannot

prove intent that's the point but there is another word socio side that Johan

galung made up and there you only have to look at the actions and not the

intent and the intentions so you can call it socio side if you want but it

doesn't matter you know I interviewed Emeritus Professor Martin

Shaw just a week ago he say his interview will be published coming Friday and he said exactly what you said

um it's the intent that counts and you can prove intent I don't say that but this is a definition yeah okay yeah this is the

legal definition of genocide you have to prove intent and this is very hard but if you talk about socio side you don't

have you just see the actions yeah but but they they they haven't accepted the socio side yeah but but again when we

come back to to Gaza we there are more more arguments that we actually can prove uh intent based on the language Ed

on the genocidal language used but again it's not U I don't know you have to read

the legal stuff yeah yeah it's very hard to prove legally yeah but what but what

I wanted to say so out of Gaza come a nonstop come non-stop images of what you

may or may not call genocide yeah with the tragedy that happens in Gaza yeah and these images they go into people's

subconscious they can I don't know where they go but the people don't do anything about

it I would agree there is very little change very but there was a

recent Gallop study which showed that the younger people are the more they support Palestine supports Palestine but

nobody stops the war you see yes because support think of

Palestine is is is a European American thing nothing to do with Gaza

really it's it's it's a moment it's a moment and it's a great moment but it

doesn't lead to any action by anyone especially not by those

who who count I mean those who give the money and the weapons yeah it's it's an it's something

that it's between themselves Hamas was right Hamas was

wrong Israel right Israel wrong I mean it's it's it's kind of okay but then it

doesn't do anything it doesn't help Gaza some people do there are some

doctors and so on but it doesn't it doesn't go to the to the right channels

to Stop The Killing and to stop what is going on there nobody

does as far as you can tell in which direction are we walk in which direction are we going here

with the situation in gasa and the situation in Lebanon Where Do We Go From Here

disaster the real disaster now I know that a majority in

the growing number I mean it was a really high number of Israelis support what's happening in Gaza and a quite a

surprisingly High uh percentage even think what's done is not enough in Gaza

okay because they are all heated up you know but they could they could think differently if they were directed to

think differently if there was peace they wouldn't remember what it was what happened

before it was after Osa you know everybody forgot everything in two days

just went shopping you know in each other's shops this is not uh you

know but um there are many who don't support it you see the

demonstrations but uh it doesn't matter as long as you don't have the money and the weapons it

doesn't matter gon leby said the demonstration which are happening right now don't

matter because the people who are demonstrating are anyway not not voting for for netan so they can keep on

demonstrating and indeed it will not change anything yeah even if there are one million who

cares who cares it's not H it's we do it for ourselves you know you don't do it to

change the world you cannot you do it for yourself to tell yourself and your

children that you are on the right side but the gazans are not being helped

by that the Gins are definit definitely not being helped and it's it's you know the

time is in the world by anyone I mean from from a western

perspective you so the Palestinians the the word Palestinian and the word terrorism have so often been used yeah

throughout the years it it almost has has become synonymous yeah yeah in Israel it

is they call them Arabs unless it's Terror then they call them Palestinian

terrorists yeah yeah so that that doesn't make it much easier for I mean

again this is a generational thing yeah it's everywhere in the in the western media it's as long as I can remember

yeah it was always Palestinian terrorist Palestinian terrorist yeah that makes it easier for people to justify for

themselves yeah to to kind of avoid this this cognitive dissonance yeah for seeing those images that we see in in in

Gaza and then saying they're terrorists and then of course all of them are terrorists right there are who said it

there are no Innocents yeah there are no innocent Sasa these kind again we just have a volume of U what we

call language and society and each writer had to take an expression was

given an expression to write about you know the language developed

after 7th of October and my word was my expression was

uninvolved so the whole idea of uninvolved is a rhetoric gimmick to prove they are not uninvolved because if

you listen to the politicians and to the artists and and and singers and people

in Israel for them there are no un involved in Gaza even the children they are seeds of

Amal they are seeds of alal they should be exterminated with all the others nobody

now you brought now you brought the term up Amal you brought it up now you have to explain it so netan used the the

term the mythological biblical um enemy of Israel and there is a

commandment to remember what amalec did to you and to exterminate amalec and the

seeds of amalec so everybody is amalec all the all the all the enemies Israel

women children dogs tonies kill everybody that's Amal yes everything

yeah yeah yeah and so he you know he mentioned it because he knows what he

does yeah so they are all Amal I mean the president said there are no one

involved in Gaza and there was this uh Member of

Parliament her name is marav benari and she's she's not

identified with baby Nan but she said also they the children brought it upon

themselves how can they you know yeah yeah I I tried I tried to put myself

into Gaza which since 2006 since 2006 is ruled by Hamas right since then you have

this Siege so you have a whole generation a new generation of young people don't know anything else well

those who committed the 7th of October are exactly these

children plus they were starved for years plus they had no hope for anything

couldn't go anywhere couldn't study couldn't I mean everything was

restricted and um and of course this breeds hatred and

it breeds violence and it breeds whatever we saw are you aware of the

location uh of this music festival that that took place October yeah it's a

yearly thing every year they have this how far is it away from the from the

separation with Gaza do you know no I can ask my husband wait

momy momy NOA

5 kilometers okay so theoretically they could have heard it right from Gaza they

could have heard the music of course they did I mean there's life there there's

good life there and I told you swimming pools and sprinkles and they don't have clean water for how many

years it breeds hate it breeds violence it breeds the most horrendous things that

we saw on the 7th of October and we know also from from studies and

this is true for any country the most danger the most dangerous demographic group anywhere are young unmarried males

up to I think between 16 and 23 yeah that's the most demographic most risk-taking democracy in any country

well they are the soldiers from 18 to 21 yeah yeah yeah I mean because they are

very enthusiastic they're very idealistic they're energy they want to

to do something and uh politicians take you

know take advantage of it yeah can we briefly yeah can we briefly um come back

to you last time we spoke you no longer work where you

worked right so maybe you briefly want to outline what

happened I mean I I'm aiming on this because I have not interviewed the the number of people

who lost their jobs I lose my job I quit I know I know I know I didn't say you

that I did specifically not say you you lost your job so that's why I invite you tell us what happened not so dramatic

yeah I wrote in a closed WhatsApp group of the teachers of my college what I

told you now you know that 7th of October is the result of Siege and so on

and I quote a jumpo South uh where he said that uh after

years and years that your heel is on his

neck and you let him breathe and you let him look at you what

kind of look do you think you'll see in his eyes and I wrote this is the look we saw on 7th of October and somebody

snitched to the president who is very rightwing from the group The closed

group and he wanted to suspend me and then I think his legal advisers

told him he cannot do it because this is a there are procedures

for that you know and then I said that he um and then he wrote a letter that

I'm a terrorist supporter and then I Justified the murder and so on and so forth put it in my file personal file

and I said if he doesn't take it out I will not come come back to work and he didn't take it out and I did not come

back to work that's a cool story well there is more to that but you

know I was summoned to the police after that and things like that with some story about a video that

I loaded uploaded where I praised the murderers and and and and and curse

Israeli soldiers and I said where is the video and the investigator said the

video is gone but people saw it what people cannot tell you but then he said

forget it go home he didn't really know who he's talking to but there was a whole you know and

the far right uh journals wrote horrible things about me and so on and so forth

but now it's quiet and that's is it do you have other examples um of

Israeli academics who was who were silenced yeah yeah there's the teachers

who were who were fired H there is

another shalov from the Hebrew University who was slandered and you know treated

terribly by by the university and so on yeah but especially teachers School teachers both Arab and Jews of course

the Arabs had much harder time than the Jews but

uh yeah and it's going on on it's still going on now there is a case of another

teacher and they go back to what somebody wrote on his Facebook years ago to to do that yeah the minister of

Education asked for names give me names they give me names like you know McCarthy so I was one of the names let's

say and they yeah the atmosphere is very very very heavy

very yeah yeah there's there's one if if a me yeah there's one thought in my mind

yeah so Israel and other countries go more and more to the right yeah but

Israel is an extreme example but don't people realize that sooner or later the

right-wing government will turn against them too it already

does because it doesn't bring back the kidnapped and they don't care about the people who lost their homes and the

works and everything I think this is one of the realizations the hard realizations of

people here because they always thought that these people who are so ruthless

towards Palestinians would be protective towards them and now they realize that they are

as ruthless not as but they are ruthless towards them as well but you

know yeah because you said the hostages yeah they

still and the people as I told you who lost their lives

with no way no homes no work no livehood nobody helps them nobody

cares and this is something people did not anticipate yeah and if you say

people to make it again very black and white which segment of Israel's population do you mean with the people

everybody I think it's it's the realization that this is what what is going on yeah is is it true I really saw

some staggering numbers but I have no way of of confirming yeah is it true that virtually hundreds of thousands of

of Israelis left Israel since October the 7th it may be

yeah okay yeah okay n you were very generous with

your time is there anything that you would that we didn't discuss what what you would like to add no it's all right

may may I ask you what is your husband doing professionally my husband well

he's retired also but he was a graphic designer and then he was the CEO of the

Family Forum Palestinian and Israeli bed families you know the organization I

believe and now he's very active in this line he's not the CEO

anymore and he travels all over the world with a Palestinian partner

and the pope invited them twice this year yeah I was very impressed by them

and there's a very known and er full of

prizes and awards book that was written about them it's called a paragon you can

write you can read it and this is what he does okay you you spiked my interest I

might come back to you on that one no no okay look for a paragon good my character there is not

true because I did not cooperate with the writer so he made up some character but he did Co they did cooperate I mean

he was here for five years and he really people say it's a great book can you repeat the author

palaman palaman paradon yeah he's a very known author Irish lives in America he

teaches in America yeah very very known as his a very awarded he has a lot of

prizes and this book was translated to I don't know how many languages 20 something okay also Italian and the pope

read it that's the point what a story yeah okay he invited them to

tce will he go no they already went if you Google my

husband Ramel Kanan you'll find the whole story of about the pop I will I will yeah n thank you very much for your

time it's really appreciated thank you thank you for tuning into salt Cube

analytics we hope today's episode gave you something to think about and challenged the way you see the world if

you enjoyed the show don't forget to subscribe or follow us and leave a review or a comment your feedback helps

us keep questioning the status quo for more insights and discussions follow us on YouTube Rumble Tik Tok Twitter

Spotify app podcast or any of your other prepared podcast platforms until next

time stay informed stay curious and remember always look beyond the

headlines [Music]

===

1,057 Comments

Sejin Lifeforce 生命

Add a comment...

@privat9538

9 months ago

May this Woman have strong and vigilant guardian angels by her side.🙏🏼

@mebdoc

1 year ago

The Peled family are legendary.

@JJ-gp3bo

1 year ago

Thanks Prof. Nurit Peled-Elhanan

102

@SRHD123-zt5jz

1 year ago

Correction , Iraq war was orchestrated by netanyahoo, and carried out by neocons.

@vladimirleninputin

8 months ago

She is spot on 👍💘🤍🌹🕊️🙏🙏🏻🙏🏿

@HHH_NEWZ

1 year ago

This guest answered many of my questions. All the best

104

@fredhayward1350

1 year ago

Educational indeed. Thank you both.

@CatLady3333

9 months ago

A powerful interview.

@johnhandily2943

1 year ago

How terrible! It should stop immediately. We've been terribly deceived by terrible people!

3 replies

@mikelmiller1259

9 months ago

Excellent commentary thnx

@bluplaneter

1 year ago

Criminally underrated video.

Criminally underrated channel.

This was mind-blowingly educational.

170

@MD-bu3xc

1 year ago

This woman's work is so important. Everyone should know what she is saying.

255

SaltCubeAnalytics

5 replies

@Olive_999-v6v

1 year ago

Im surprised there was no mention of the hannibal directive.

1 reply

@curaticac5391

1 year ago

Respect to the Peled family!!!

1 reply

@cristinakasselas555

1 year ago

Mrs Nurit Peled and her brother MIKO PELED are some of the finest people on earth, we are so grateful for all your work !

214

2 replies

@paulmc6940

1 year ago

Excellent, thanks 👏👏👏🙏

@conniecarrozza5105

1 year ago

These schools exist in Canada funded by charities that pay zero taxes.

@maruzande

11 months ago

As long as thinkers like this lady exist, we human beings still have hope of improving, of progressing, of becoming better, even taking many steps backwards, as is happening in this time, in this dark phase of humanity.

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@profmyrta2857

1 year ago

What a sick society brainwashed children's mind this way. As an educator I really feel disgusted.

@Brianbeesandbikes

1 year ago

Crucial info to share. THANKS!!

@lornafw

7 months ago

Excellent So informative. An indictment of humanity Nurit pulls no punches. And this was ten months ago. Shame on us.

@NotInMYName_AntiZionistJew

8 months ago

Thank you for all of your good work, SCA. 💙 Thank you also, Nurit Peled-Elhanan. 💜

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@sharonrichards1627

1 year ago

Think of the repercussions if anyone did the same against Jews?!!!

@JorgeSalinas-v1i

9 months ago

Thanks for showing a different view of what's going on in the world

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@Vlora1vlora

1 year ago

Stop genocide in gaza.Netanjahu in HAGA

@mariamckenzie2009

9 months ago

Thank you for saying the truth, for educated people and for being a.good human being.

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@skunkape5918

8 months ago

The Palestinians and Peleds are God's chosen people ☦️ ❤️ 🕊

@heide9755

1 year ago (edited)

Algo made it possible, thx for this great inspiring interview, changed my view of Israel🌷🇩🇪

@bartlemmons1704

8 months ago

God bless thos woman for speaking out.

@cheri238

1 year ago

Thank you,Thomas, for having Professor Nurit Peled-Elhanan on with this important discussion. She is a very wise woman who enlightens us with her story, her writing, and experiences, and I thank her and her family.

Here in America, Jewish Americans had their own text books to teach children about the love for Israel. I knew of this because I had Jewish & Palestinian friends.

A wonderful documentary by Aljawera on Oct. 24, 2024:

Israelism: The Awakening of Young Jews: Featured Documentary

It follows Simone Zimmerman, who visited Israel as a teenager & and Eitan, who joined the Israeli army after graduating high school. Both learned the reality for the Palestinians and radically changed their views.

This documentary interviews with academics and political activists, including Noam Chomsky , Cornel West, Lara Freidman & former dierctor of the Anti- Defamation League Abe Fohmann.

All should watch this documentary.

Peace and Love ️

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@cardanotony1097

1 year ago

Mrs Peled , Thomas thanks very much for

💚❤️💚

@greenlover701

8 months ago

Thank you, Mrs. Nurit Elhanon and Salt Cube. I've heard Miko Peled also. So much wisdom in your family. The world should know about the mind control strategy she describes, in order to shut it down; "america's" education about our shameful, evil history is more subtle, but also racist, reckless, and pro-imperialism.

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@KeveryKat

9 months ago

This was the BEST discussion I have SEEN on the topic, thank you so much for broadcasting this perspective.

Please tell me what do we DO to ACTUALLY get this to STOP! I would love to know how to help the Palestinians AND Israelis, this is such a sad situation QUICKLY destroying BOTH peoples. Im so sorry to hear these things, but I appreciate the TRUTH.

SaltCubeAnalytics

1 reply

@isamkamel

1 year ago

Thanks for inviting Peof. Nurit Peled-Elhanan

@rosered6600

1 year ago

The US is using judeo Christian teaching for the same purpose.

SaltCubeAnalytics

4 replies

@MeeMaw-m8m

1 year ago

I very much appreciate Nurit Peled-Elhanan's realistic perspective, and frankness.

@spaceman9599

1 year ago

Excellent interview with a shining beacon of courage in dark times.

SaltCubeAnalytics

2 replies

@juju2B

8 months ago

I needed to hear this perspective, thankyou for this conversation.

@habsa8855

1 year ago

This should be studied in Universities and High schools in US and Europe.

3 replies

@JohnCrawfojo

8 months ago (edited)

Fascinating interview it answered a lot of questions Thank you

@kamilla1960

1 year ago

Thank you 🙏

@My_DNA_told_me_to_do

1 year ago

A very evil system 🤷‍♀️💁🏻‍♂️

@shukamargolin

9 months ago

Thank you both so much

@MD-bu3xc

1 year ago

My husband who has passed away by his own hand grew up in a family where the holocaust was the foundation of every decision made and he was so deeply traumatized growing up in this atmosphere that it darkened every aspect of his life and personality. I believe it was eventually the cause of his death in a very violent way, at his own hand in 2018.

115

SaltCubeAnalytics

16 replies

@Lidafkidaf

1 year ago

Sick society creates sick people

2 replies

@giuseppefornari5777

1 year ago

Great interview, thanks.

@lcbrittain

1 year ago

I love the Palestinian embroidered shawl Nurit is wearing. It’s a lovely statement of solidarity.

2 replies

@AB-db4df

1 year ago

The concentration of power, control and wealth.

@MIKEMIKE-te2dt

1 year ago

Thanks for this informative interview!

@jaynesimmons2403

1 year ago

What an interesting interview that was. Thank you

@OhDearOhDear69

1 year ago

Wow, even the title of this video is very impactful. Can’t wait to watch it through!

@matthewfranklin8379

1 year ago

Nurit’s analysis on literary education cuts through to the heart of the problem about dehumanisation at a formative stage. She is a blessing.

@HypatiaMuse

1 year ago

Thank you for posting this interview, this woman is a gem.

@TheHoodVoice2024

1 year ago

The evil grandma at the beginning says a lot about how they’re raised.

@mohammednoori7474

1 year ago

Impressive interview with lots of insightful facts

@zibtihaj3213

8 months ago

41:34 now that is scary … in school books …. Wooowwwwwww.

@foofkanon

1 year ago

This woman is no nonsense.

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1 reply

@tagucilalpa

1 year ago

I salute both the interviewer and producer of the documentary and the Professor Nurit. ❤ These are the voices and conversations the world needs to hear right now... for peace!

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2 replies

@mystictraveler8642

1 year ago

Americans are programmed this way as well but the diversity of people and voices makes it less extreme here compared to israel.

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1 reply

@yannkitson116

1 year ago

Impressive woman. Thank you.

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1 reply

@ramonamk56

1 year ago

I never understood How any Mother would let her Children go to an Army,...and fight and die for a small " Elite" of Warprofetiers.

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2 replies

@roshp3577

1 year ago

This was refreshing—an Israeli with a conscious who has brown e free from the Zionist matrix!

@KeveryKat

9 months ago

Professor Nurit Elhanon, thank you so much for your perspectives, this answers so many questions for me. I am so sad to know this is the way children are being molded in Israel, but it totally explains the condition of attitudes and behavior that I am seeing so much of now. God bless you and keep you safe!

@Martinroadsguy

1 year ago

28:35 "In America they take only the poor ones." I felt that.

1 reply

@bluelola4480

1 year ago

What a brilliant lLady! Thank you for this interview.

@frazel22

1 year ago

Prof, we love you, we need you, please dont stop fighting

@avaandlilah8133

1 year ago

No degree of inferiority in weapons, numbers or economic power could defeat a nation truly committed to independence. Americans didn't learn this lesson in Vietnam. Even Poland "ceased to exist" for 100 years; not any map! And then reappeared in the 20th century. Palestine will be free. This is inevitable.

@mikeymileos

1 year ago (edited)

27:45 there's a major difference. Most people in the world are not raised to believe there's a vague threat that DEFINITELY wants to kill them since childhood

1 reply

@Suarez-rw2zy

1 year ago

Dear Mrs Nurit Elhanan thank you for your insightful and thought provoking thoughts in what's going on in Israel. May you and your family have peace in mind and in life. Thank you for your humanity.🙏🙏

1 reply

@patriciaodea8901

8 months ago

What courage!! She is marvellous!!!

@harrikiiskinen1571

1 year ago

Thank you professor; and Thomas,; thank you so much.

1 reply

@veridianacarvalho9209

1 year ago

That's a wonderful and very enlightening interview. Thank you

1 reply

@dinnerwithfranklin

1 year ago

Thank you Thomas. You asked some very interesting questions.

@maritlebliss

1 year ago (edited)

Oh my God! I love the author and planned to read it.

@marcoborraz3763

1 year ago (edited)

Great program. Professor Peled’s participation is illuminating. I admire her transparent honesty to describe Israel’s strategy to form cruel Israeli soldiers and citizens who don’t see Arabs as humans. I was lucky to listen to her. People like her might save Israel from its own destruction (thanks to Benjamin Netanyahu) because I don’t think she’s a cultivated human being and she’s not a blindfolded fanatic. I’ve got to read her books. Brave and smart woman.

2 replies

@IronJazz99

1 year ago

I encountered Orthodox Jews living in a NYC housing project. They were poor,on public assistance. The predominate feeling I got from them was "Fear and Parinoia". A lot of African Americans are driven by this,also. Whole groups can be traumatized..Trauma effects your thinking and action.

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@ashleyKennedy5

1 year ago (edited)

Her book is totally out of date and needs a re-write because the racist society she wrote about has gone beyond racism! I now can understand why there were riots in support of rape. Deviancy is the new normal in Kahanistan.

It is strange that Nurit doesn't think intent to genocide hasn't been proved. Intent to genocide is normally the most difficult element to prove, in the case of the Kach regime of Tel Aviv intent to genocide is the easiest element to prove as genocidal statements were made in public and no attempt was made to hide intent to genocide.

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@eufl

1 year ago

Great interview! Thank you!

@vasjahafner8162

1 year ago

Excellent interview. In depth, non black and white, deep in place analysis ... This is what is of value and not public manipulation info from any political side...

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1 reply

@timmcdraw7568

1 year ago (edited)

You can order her book. Its really worth it. Its a study but its written in a way that everyone can engage with. But i warn you - it is insanely frustrating! That children’s education would be used as an opportunity to mold minds into seeing the world like that, other people, and themselves, just so that they can keep this ideology for another generation.

1 reply

@lmcgready

1 year ago

Thank you!

@GraziellaCurreliSculpteur

1 year ago

Wonderfully intimidating woman! "Maybe that's humanity..." "Everybody supports Palestine but nobody stops the war"... This woman strips your hart naked! Thank you Thomas for inviting her again and Thank you Madame for accepting the invite!

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@giulianoardis370

1 year ago

Thanks prof. Nurit for the informative

@yolakin8210

1 year ago

Thank you for posting.

@ValentinIonita-t4l

9 months ago

I like her. She is bluntly realistic. Many won't like what she say but she speak sense.

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@lerkkweed

1 year ago

Thank you so much for this, both of you. A critically important piece of the puzzle.

@LeRoiDelaRue

1 year ago

Very illuminating Thank you

@Mary-il6zz

1 year ago

If you are taught exceptionalism, you will never learn we are all a part of humanity. I was taught in Catholic schools and we learned that we must take care of the poor, the sick and all that struggle. We are all children of God.

5 replies

@addyhadmelike655

1 year ago

congrats on 10k subs Thomas. I'll be here still when you hit 100k then 1m. One of the most important channels on Youtube

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1 reply

@gcmlrd12

1 year ago

Thank you once again for the informative post.

@Wan-Malaysia

1 year ago

This is an important if not timely video. I hope it tries to overcome the defence walls of a viewer who is already prejudiced. For the extremist nothing can be done.

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2 replies

@nausicaa_moon

1 year ago

Thank you, from one German to another, to use your voice and platform for humanity! This should be part of our commitment and promise to Jews and humanity, to be anti-genocide in ANY context and dismantle dehumanisation ideologies ❤️❤️❤️

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@Wan-Malaysia

1 year ago (edited)

Prof Nurit's refrain,"Nobody does anything. Nobody does anything. Nobody does anything." It's a vvv meaningful echo. Reminds me about parents telling children to finish eating everything because there are starving children in Africa. Words misused, abused to achieve a "selfish" end that is not really related to the reality ie about helping these children. It's really true people like to bitch about everything but do nothing themselves. And I mean doing something really helpful like Code Pink. This reminds me of people who claim their religion is the correct one but their lives lived without helping anyone sometimes even themselves.

1 reply

@LadyBug1967

5 months ago

I could have told you that and I did to people I knew a quarter century ago after 9/11 and the word terrorism was brains thrown around in America like it was candy. It would be turned against its own people and it has been and even someone like Tulsi when she was either in contention for the homeland security position or does she gotten it I think it was prior she was held up in an airport and scrutinized for many hours because she's on the terrorist list. That's how it works with evil. You treat people evenly by reducing them to one word it will be boomerang back to you. Just know that. The old-fashioned slogan was those who killed by the sword will be killed by the sword and so it goes

@f.m.9531

1 year ago

There was and is a lot of refusal in the Ukraine military but the mainstream does not report on it.

@nitajean9885

1 year ago

Whoever is telling you that background music is a good idea is wrong

@exunitaevires

1 year ago

Holy Smokes! This is going to be an amazing video! ❤

@michaelfoley3777

1 year ago

Absolutely brilliant analysis!

Most Sincerely Michael Foley 🤔

1 reply

@Peta8888

1 year ago

Thank you both, this needs to be heard by everyone. I've shared on my socials and hope my comment helps with the algorithm

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@damienflinter4585

1 year ago (edited)

Doing nothing is NOT 'humanity'...it is the opposite, inhumanity.

There were human efforts against Nazism also, The White Rose students in Munich spring to mind.

Humanity resists brutality, but the power has been captured over millennia by organised savagery.

@ellencooney5563

1 year ago

I am sorry, but Please do not be sooo defeatist. Jesus, Yeshua lives!

@egay86292

1 year ago

all you are saying is being inhuman is human.

@damienflinter4585

1 year ago

@egay86292

Nope.

Thats your statement.

I suggest you reread mine.

@JLaw1226

8 months ago

Apathy is the greatest sin of all. 😢

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@pattyhoge1725

1 year ago

Very interesting interview. Thank you.

이스라엘, 팔레스타인, 이란, 터키, 인도, 월남, 쿠바

Sunday, April 5, 2026

[이스라엘 학교는 어떻게 아이들을 군사화하는가> - Interview with Nurit Peled-Elhanan - YouTube

1. 전체 요약 (핵심 주장 구조)

2. 교육 내용: “팔레스타인은 존재하지 않는다”

3. “테러리스트” 프레임의 내면화

4. 홀로코스트 교육의 역할

5. 군사화: “아이 → 군인”의 자연스러운 전환

6. 인종화된 분류 구조

7. 언어와 의미 조작

8. 미디어와의 결합

9. 결론적 주장

10. 평론: 이 인터뷰의 의미

(1) 가장 중요한 기여

(2) 설득력 높은 부분

(3) 그러나 중요한 한계

① 일반화 문제

② 반대 증거 부족

③ 감정적 프레임

11. 구조적 해석 (세진님 관심과 연결)

(1) <교육 + 기억 + 군대> 3축 구조

(2) 기억 정치

(3) 비교 가능성

12. 최종 평가

13. 한 줄 결론

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