This Rabbi Explains How How Zionism Turned Jews Into Symbolic Human Shields | Yaakov Shapiro
Jay Shapiro - Dilemma Podcast
20.6K subscribers
11,832 views Apr 23, 2026 ✪ Members first on April 22, 2026 The Dilemma Podcast
In this long-form conversation, I sit down with Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro—one of the most outspoken anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox rabbis—to explore one of the most misunderstood questions in modern politics: what is the relationship between Judaism and Zionism?
Raised in suburban American Conservative Judaism with Israeli flags on the bimah, Hebrew school, bar mitzvahs, and an unspoken expectation to support Israel, I wanted to understand what exactly I inherited—and whether it had anything to do with Judaism as a religion at all.
We begin with my own family story: my great-great-grandfather, a Satmar Jew in Hungary, was murdered in Auschwitz, while his daughter had left that world decades earlier for America. A few generations later, I inherited a version of Jewish identity shaped less by theology than by Holocaust memory and Zionist politics.
Rabbi Shapiro argues that Zionism fundamentally transformed Judaism from a religion of covenant, law, and exile into a political nationalism—and in doing so, created deep moral and philosophical confusion for Jews like me who never believed in the theology but were still expected to defend the state of Israel.
From the Holocaust and 1967 to female rabbis, the orange on the Seder plate, chosenness, antisemitism, and whether Judaism is a religion or an ethnicity, this conversation goes far beyond headlines. We discuss whether Zionism is a form of idolatry, why many religious Jews see Israel as a theological violation, and why the phrase “let Judaism be a religion and let Israel be a foreign country” might be the clearest way to understand the crisis. A serious philosophical conversation about faith, identity, history, and the moral catastrophe of Zionism... for the world... and for Judaism.
00:00 Coming Up...
01:46 Intro My Family Story: Satmar Roots, Auschwitz, and America
11:27 My Opening Question: What Did I Actually Get Growing Up?
21:13 What Do I Have To Do To Be A Jew?
32:14 Jabotinsky and the Zionist Rejection of the “Exile Jew”
39:19 I Didn’t Get Judaism—I Got Israel
42:11 “The Main Desire of Zionism was to Fix the Jews” Rabbi Shapiro’s Definition of Zionism
57:06 Chosen People, Christians, and Jewish Identity
01:04:00 Who Gets to Define Who Is a Jew?
01:10:29 Are Religious Zionists Actually Religious?
01:19:21 Holocaust Identity and Postwar American Judaism
01:21:18 Moral Philosophy vs Divine Command
01:27:12 Different Roads, Same Conclusion: Zionism Is Wrong
01:44:18 The Best Zionist Argument: The Fear of Another Holocaust
01:51:24 Would You Go Quietly? Zionists Killing Jews: The Case of Jacob de Haan
01:55:48 1967 and the Zionist Transformation of American Judaism
01:58:18 Final Thoughts: Obligation, Opportunity, and Another Round
===
세진님, 요청하신 자료인 <이 랍비는 시온주의가 어떻게 유대인을 상징적 인간 방패로 만들었는지 설명한다>의 내용을 바탕으로 요약과 평론을 작성해 보았습니다.
<시온주의라는 우상 숭배와 유대인 정체성의 위기> 요약 및 평론
1. 요약: 시온주의는 어떻게 유대교를 변질시켰는가
본 텍스트는 야코브 샤피로 랍비와의 대담을 통해 시온주의가 유대교의 본질을 어떻게 훼손하고 유대인을 국가주의적 틀에 가두었는지 비판적으로 고찰한다.
1) 유대인의 정의와 시온주의의 야망
시온주의의 핵심 목표는 유대인을 수동적인 유배 생활에서 벗어나게 하여 <정상적인 국가>를 가진 민족으로 <수정>하는 것이었다.
2) 신학적 위반으로서의 이스라엘
많은 종교적 유대인들에게 이스라엘 국가는 신학적 위반으로 간주된다.
3) 상징적 인간 방패가 된 유대인
시온주의는 이스라엘 국가를 모든 유대인의 대표로 설정함으로써, 전 세계 유대인을 이스라엘의 정치적 행위에 대한 방어막으로 활용한다.
2. 평론: 국가라는 우상이 삼켜버린 신앙의 자리
본 대담은 시온주의가 단순한 정치 운동을 넘어 유대교라는 고대 신앙 체계를 어떻게 해체하고 재조립했는지를 날카롭게 파헤친다. 샤피로 랍비의 주장은 현대 민족주의가 종교적 서사를 선점했을 때 발생하는 폭력성을 노출한다.
1) 종교적 정체성의 도구화에 대한 경고
가장 인상적인 지점은 시온주의를 <우상 숭배>로 규정한 대목이다.
2) <정상성>이라는 함정
시온주의가 유대인을 <정상화>하려 했다는 분석은 근대 민족주의의 폭력성을 상징한다.
3) 현대 유대인의 실존적 소외
본문은 이스라엘 국가의 행동에 책임을 강요받는 전 세계 유대인들의 실존적 고통을 잘 보여준다.
결론적으로 이 자료는 시온주의를 정치적 성공이 아닌 유대교의 신학적·윤리적 파산으로 규정하며, 우리가 당연하게 받아들이는 <국민국가> 체제가 종교적 본질을 어떻게 왜곡할 수 있는지에 대해 묵직한 질문을 던진다.
제시해주신 내용이 깊이 있는 철학적 담론을 담고 있어, 그 핵심을 최대한 반영하여 작성해 보았습니다. 더 궁금하신 점이 있으신가요?
===
===
Transcript
0:00We are not a nationality. That's what the Zionists wanted. If you change the Jews into a nationality, they will have national aspirations. We are a religion.
0:1010 secondsWe only have religious aspirations. And look, I don't like Zionists. I wish that Zionism would would disappear off the face of the earth and Israel would was
0:1818 secondsnever created. I hate Zionism. The foundation stone of Zionism is the idea that the Jews are not just a religious
0:2525 secondsidentity but a national identity and also that Israel is the state of that nation. People ask me sometimes if I'm
0:3333 secondsashamed to be Jewish. People tell me they're ashamed of their Jewishness because of Israel. I say the truth of the matter is you have to understand my
0:4040 secondsperspective. If they themselves said that they are the opposite of me and everything I am they will do and act and
0:4747 secondsbe the opposite, I should be proud. Put all those diametrically opposite traits in a human being, that's a Zionist.
0:5656 secondsBecause Jews are weak, the Zionists are strong. Because Jews are ugly, Zionists are handsome. Because Jews are cowards,
1:031 minute, 3 secondsZionists are they're fearless. Because Jews run away, Zionists are going to go to the world, look them in the eye, and say, "I am a Zionist." And they this
1:121 minute, 12 secondsmilitancy and this this everything. It was only not to be a gouache. you're trying to figure out how to follow the
1:201 minute, 20 secondsrules because you think the rules are commanded by God and that's the recipe for for not just the good life but the the life commanded by God. But in that
1:281 minute, 28 secondsyou did say in passing that like you know a woman rabbi is against the rules and I would say like okay I believe you
1:361 minute, 36 secondsthat you're right reading that interpretation correctly. So I don't have a logical problem with it. I have a moral problem with it.
1:421 minute, 42 secondsI mean can we get a little philosophical here?
1:451 minute, 45 secondsWould love it on my podcast. J Shapiro here. Uh, and thank you for clicking on a video with a pretty long timestamp.
1:511 minute, 51 secondsUh, if you've clicked on it and you're still watching, you're probably my kind of person. So, break it up into a couple parts. Watch it all at once if you really want a pretty dense, massive uh,
2:002 minutesconversation here. Uh, but it's a conversation with a rabbi and they tend to go like this. So, it's Rabbi Yakov Shapiro, who uh, you might know as one of the most outspoken anti-Zionists uh,
2:112 minutes, 11 secondsultraorththodox heredi Jews that has been doing this for a very, very long time. But I wanted to start this conversation with a bit of a different
2:192 minutes, 19 secondspersonal story that is completely relevant and runs kind of in the background of I think all of the incredible encyclopedia uh history and
2:272 minutes, 27 secondsknowledge that he brings to this conversation to to prove and show and it's not a clickbaity thumbnail you clicked on that really Zionism and
2:352 minutes, 35 secondsZionists hate Jews and Judaism. I I think that's such an important fundamental thing to understand in conversations about Zionism and Judaism.
2:452 minutes, 45 secondsum and why uh for many many reasons uh Israel is an untenable and crazy project
2:512 minutes, 51 secondsthat is really not comparable to other nations and states on earth. But I wanted to start with this personal story
2:592 minutes, 59 secondsbecause I think it's completely relevant to what we're about to talk about. Uh because you sure you've noticed we share the same last name but we look very different. We live very different lives.
3:083 minutes, 8 secondsWe have very different beliefs. We have very different ways we approach problems. But in my family tree, I'm going to show you a picture. This is my great greatgrandfather. So it's my
3:163 minutes, 16 secondsgrandmother's grandfather. His name was Aram Pinchas Freriedman and he was in a town called Kishnitza which was at the time Hungary later became Czechlovakia.
3:263 minutes, 26 secondsIt's currently Ukraine. Um and he was a satar Jew which is a sect of heredi sort
3:343 minutes, 34 secondsof ultraorththodox. Uh that is Rabbi Yakov Shapiro's uh tradition as well.
3:403 minutes, 40 secondsThe story in my family is so it was my grandmother's mother when she was 12 years old in 1903 left uh for America
3:483 minutes, 48 secondswith some of her uncles um didn't want to live that kind of strict religious life settled in America uh obviously my
3:563 minutes, 56 secondsfamily tree then descended through there and then years later I'm born in 1982 in Allentown Pennsylvania a couple
4:034 minutes, 3 secondsgenerations later and what I get is a kind of Judaism that is uh Judaism by name, but very very very different than what Avram was doing there. In 1903,
4:164 minutes, 16 secondsAvam um was killed along with just about that entire family by the Nazis in 1944 when
4:224 minutes, 22 secondsthey they purged and exterminated um Jews in Hungary and brought them to Awitz. There's a terrible story told in
4:304 minutes, 30 secondsin a book, the Yitskar book, about his beard being ripped out by Nazis. Just awful stuff. Um and that was his fate.
4:384 minutes, 38 secondsAnd even that fate of the of the Jews in Europe and the Holocaust is relevant to the debates and conversations about
4:454 minutes, 45 secondsZionism which affected the kind of Judaism that I was exposed to many years later. Didn't believe any of the
4:524 minutes, 52 secondstheology, didn't follow any of the 613 commandments that are part of the covenant. I didn't do any of that. I got something very different with an Israeli
5:015 minutes, 1 secondflag on the beimma at my synagogue and a bunch of my friends going off to Israel when they were teenagers to uh take part
5:105 minutes, 10 secondsin the conveyor belt of Zionism. And interestingly even in that family a history story is you know my grandmother's uh mother even though she
5:175 minutes, 17 secondswas young leaving that community and that life may even have sort of you know feminist freedom overtones to it that she wanted something else and different
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsopportunities which weren't afforded to her open to her in that community. Um that's an open question. I mean, for
5:325 minutes, 32 secondsexample, you'll hear Yakov um very honestly and and logically getting his morality and the way he lives as almost a recipe from the book, from the Torah,
5:435 minutes, 43 secondsfrom the commandments, from the covenant of what to do. So, for example, recently Passover was celebrated, which is a a traditional dinner that you do on uh on
5:525 minutes, 52 secondsPassover, and there's a plate in in the middle called the seder plate. It means order, and there's certain things that you're supposed to do and read certain
5:585 minutes, 58 secondspassages. And I'm sure Yakov and and his family and his in his tradition follows a very uh you know strict by the book
6:076 minutes, 7 secondsread everything that you're supposed to read and the rules are laid out and and don't deviate from it because that's the covenant that's the commandment. Um, but
6:166 minutes, 16 secondsI remember going home one uh holiday season and my mother had put an orange on the sader plate which I had never
6:236 minutes, 23 secondsseen before. And the reason was that some Heredi rabbi in a conversation about uh whether women belonged on the
6:316 minutes, 31 secondsBeimma as female rabbis said something like uh a woman or belongs on the Beimma as a rabbi as much as a orange belongs
6:406 minutes, 40 secondson the seder plate which of course is a joke. an there's no you shouldn't have an orange on the sader plate according to the rules. And so then there was, you know, a little feminist movement to put
6:486 minutes, 48 secondsan orange on the seder plate. It's kind of a thumb and an eye in the eye to this kind of I don't know,
6:546 minutes, 54 secondsyou know, misogynistic view. Although someone like Rabbi Yakov Shapiro doesn't say it's misogynistic. He says he's just following the rules in the books. So, I
7:027 minutes, 2 secondsI put that out there to say there's interesting moral, philosophical conversations to have about conversations
7:107 minutes, 10 secondsuh with someone like Rabbi Yako Shapiro that we don't totally focus on in this conversation, but we do scratch the surface where, you know, we we and
7:197 minutes, 19 secondsprobably many of my viewers really agree with him very deeply on his opposition to Zionism, but the reasoning for it,
7:267 minutes, 26 secondsthe way you construct your moral philosophy to um end up with that position could be very very different and the strange bedfellows conversation I had
7:357 minutes, 35 secondswith Emily Jins Jashinski is kind of echoing of this of this moment that we're in right now. I just wanted to add another thing here in the opening uh
7:437 minutes, 43 secondsthat we bring up because it's could be misinterpreted or it's fairly I don't know maybe explosive in the environment is we talk a little bit about the
7:517 minutes, 51 secondsattractiveness of Jews which was a Zionist thing that they said Jews were not blessed with handsomeness and were ugly and whatnot and and Yakov will
7:597 minutes, 59 secondsreally explain that um because I know like this photo is going around which I'm sure everyone has seen of this
8:058 minutes, 5 secondsrather unfortunate uh IDF soldier with his looks um that was unfortunately was so
8:138 minutes, 13 secondsunattractive that people were sure it was an AI generated image and and anti-semitic in some way. But on this notion like this is something that has a
8:228 minutes, 22 secondsbit of an explanation that really Yakov doesn't care about, right? I mean, if if you just think through this logically with the starting point as as Rabbi
8:308 minutes, 30 secondsYakov Shapiro will explain of of of wanting to understand what the rules of the Torah are and really obsessing over that to a significant degree. I'll give
8:378 minutes, 37 secondsyou example. um you know and devoting your life to that and living your life by that. You do have to live sort of in a clustered a bit isolated insular way.
8:468 minutes, 46 secondsIt's just easier to do that way. Um and so your your your dating pool genetically is not so big. And they weren't concerned about that anyway. It
8:538 minutes, 53 secondswas a lot of arranged marriages and they're sitting around reading all day and maybe you know dark places. This combination over centuries is probably
9:029 minutes, 2 secondsnot great for you know the the attractiveness you know pull pool as it were. They don't care about that. That's not their
9:099 minutes, 9 secondsconcern. That's not their interest. You know, they're not interested in the the vanity of things. And then if you have this Zionist thing that tries to be the
9:179 minutes, 17 secondsanti that, tries to be the anti-Jew in that sense, the Yid, the exile Jew, as he'll explain. Um, obviously your genetics are a little, you know,
9:259 minutes, 25 secondshampered. You might go in another direction really quickly to try to adjust for that or what it might explain some of the things certain people are
9:339 minutes, 33 secondsseeing. But just to just to underline just how uh intricate and obsessed this kind of view of of religion and
9:409 minutes, 40 secondsfollowing the rules is, you can find in the Talmud a tract about whether or not it is permitted to to kill lice or or
9:479 minutes, 47 secondslouse on on the shabas. And this is because 1500 years ago um there wasn't a good scientific uh
9:569 minutes, 56 secondsexplanation of where lice and certain other animals came from. There was a theory of spontaneous generation that they kind of just popped into existence
10:0410 minutes, 4 secondseither from sweat or even from coiled ropes and things like this at the time.
10:0810 minutes, 8 secondsUh certain other things I think certain mice and certain other animals they weren't they thought that's how they popped into existence and there's certain rules and interpretations of what you can and cannot do on Shabas
10:1610 minutes, 16 secondsabout killing animals but then so does this strange kind of spontaneous generation animal fit into that rule or not? What does the legal definition of
10:2510 minutes, 25 secondsit say? And so like these are the kind of crazy intricate legal sort of applications of are we following the rules? What do the rules say that God
10:3310 minutes, 33 secondssent down to us that people like Yakov are really uh obsessed with and concerned with. Um it's not coming from a place outside of the book of moral
10:4210 minutes, 42 secondsphilosophy. It's from what does the book say and how do we follow it. And so I'm not, you know, going around saying that the Jews are ugly and the Zionists are
10:5010 minutes, 50 secondsthe ones who who said this. Um, but this is this is uh it might explain some of the kind of uh maybe hyper masculinity
10:5810 minutes, 58 secondsand attractiveness obsession that they go to in another direction to try to strip themselves of this maybe unfortunate genetic legacy in certain
11:0611 minutes, 6 secondsinstances. Um anyway, it can it's fairly like explosive kind of conversation in today's environment. And so I just wanted to sort of plant that flag before
11:1411 minutes, 14 secondswe get into the conversation. And so anyway, I'll leave that there and let you sort of see how it goes between us.
11:2011 minutes, 20 secondsUh but for uh uh for now enjoy the long and interesting conversation with Rabbi Yakov Shapiro. But my question my
11:2811 minutes, 28 secondsopening question to Rabbi Shapiro you is what did I get? What did I get in my upbringing post 1967 born in 1982 in Allentown,
11:3811 minutes, 38 secondsPennsylvania, conservative Jewish household. Um atheistic, no talk of God
11:4511 minutes, 45 secondsreally. Didn't keep kosher. did Hanukkah and the high holidays and basically was expected to support Israel as sort of a
11:5411 minutes, 54 secondsdefault which was a central pillar of kind of the I don't know political community and religion I was in what did
12:0112 minutes, 1 secondI get versus you know what happened in that story okay
12:1112 minutes, 11 secondsseveral hundred years ago we're talking before the enlightenment before the emancipation there was basically no such thing as a non-relig religious Jew.
12:1912 minutes, 19 secondsI mean, every incident where you'll find in non-Jewish literature and Shakespeare and other places a Jew, it's a religious Jew.
12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsAnd aside from some quirky exceptions like Spinosa, depending upon who you ask, um there was no concept of
12:3712 minutes, 37 secondsJewishness without religion a thousand years ago. Uh and this is a a very
12:4412 minutes, 44 secondsimportant principle. uh our great rabbi Rabbi Sadon
12:4912 minutes, 49 secondsuh had said that in Hebrew and I'm going to use that word um because that word is shared by the
12:5812 minutes, 58 secondsMuslims to describe themselves. Our um is only in um because of our religion.
13:0313 minutes, 3 secondsNow he wrote that in Arabic and the word that I'm trans I'm using a Hebrew translation but the word that he used in Arabic for our religion was Sharia.
13:1513 minutes, 15 secondsHow is Sharia? It just means religious law. That's all it means. It has nothing to do with something uh exclusively uh Muslim. And
13:2513 minutes, 25 secondsthen came the enlightenment and emancipation. And Jews had not only the ability freedom of religion but also
13:3413 minutes, 34 secondsfreedom from religion. Jews originally uh well the Jewish lifestyle according to our tradition and the way it's been
13:4313 minutes, 43 secondslived for centuries is kind of a monastic lifestyle. Jews in the Bible when they came down to Egypt originally
13:5213 minutes, 52 secondsbecause of a famine, they asked to be segregated in their own communities in a town called Goshen or a section of Egypt
14:0014 minutescalled Goshen uh where they could live their lives uh separately. And the reason is because the separation is a
14:0814 minutes, 8 secondsreligious one kind of like a monastery or like uh you know Shaolin monks on top of a hilltop. You have to live your own
14:1714 minutes, 17 secondslife. we have um Judaism is not a religion just of belief faith. It's it's
14:2314 minutes, 23 secondssomething that controls every aspect of our lives and when I say every aspect of our lives I mean literally that our lives are here for the sake of religion.
14:3414 minutes, 34 secondsWe were born um in order to attain merits to merit the afterlife.
14:4414 minutes, 44 secondsWe are here as our sages say this world is like a preparation room uh in order
14:5114 minutes, 51 secondsto prepare we let's say we train um we prepare ourselves in order to perform in
14:5814 minutes, 58 secondsthe next world and that's the only reason God created the world for people to be happy in the next world and happy
15:0715 minutes, 7 secondsmeans connected to God that's our concept of heaven and we have a concept of hell which is punishment uh we don't
15:1415 minutes, 14 secondsneed to go into all that now, but we're here, that's the purpose of religion. Um, in Judaism,
15:2215 minutes, 22 secondsand this is also important because your people are certainly going to ask, and it's directly relevant to your question.
15:2915 minutes, 29 secondsUm, you were what's called, you are now what you would probably call yourself a secular Jew or a non-religious Jew. You
15:3815 minutes, 38 secondsdescribed yourself as an atheist. Now later I'm going to ask you what that means and I'll I would put money on it
15:4615 minutes, 46 secondsnow that you would not be able to give me a coherent answer. Yeah. Yeah.
15:5115 minutes, 51 secondsAnd you you'll win that bet early on as a preview, but go on. Yeah.
15:5515 minutes, 55 secondsOkay. Um but the way Juda I'll tell you what a secular Jew means. Uh you won't believe this because you're an atheist,
16:0516 minutes, 5 secondsbut in the religion of Judaism, there's such a thing as a secular Jew. And this is why uh the entire world not only Jews
16:1416 minutes, 14 secondsare here can merit to merit the afterlife in Judy Judaism is not a proitizing religion and that means that
16:2216 minutes, 22 secondswhereas let's say in other religions maybe all religions I don't know uh you need to say in Christianity you need to
16:2916 minutes, 29 secondsbe a Christian in order to be saved otherwise like I don't know what happens to you depends upon which uh I I I I'm not a
16:3716 minutes, 37 secondsChristian so I don't really know much But depending upon your version of Christianity, different things happen to you. Um, in Islam, you everybody should
16:4616 minutes, 46 secondsuh even though some Muslims have told me you don't have to be a Muslim. God judges everybody according to their circumstances. But if somebody comes and
16:5316 minutes, 53 secondsasks what should I do? I want to serve God uh Allah. Um they'll say okay follow
17:0117 minutes, 1 secondthe Quran, become a Muslim, accept Islam. But the Jews don't believe that. Adam or perhaps Noah, it's questionable.
17:1017 minutes, 10 secondsReceived from God seven commandments.
17:1317 minutes, 13 secondsThat's called the Noahide laws. Very simple. You can't kill, you can't steal,
17:1817 minutes, 18 secondsyou have to set up some kind of system of civil law. Doesn't have to be the Jewish kind. Just something fair. Um you can't uh tear limbs off animals and eat them without killing the animal first.
17:2817 minutes, 28 secondsYou can't curse God. Uh immorality, basic uh civilized laws, more or less.
17:3517 minutes, 35 secondsAnd if a non-Jewish person, if a descendant of Adam or descendant of Noah, which we believe is the entire
17:4317 minutes, 43 secondsworld because everybody was killed except him and his descendants, right,
17:4517 minutes, 45 secondsin the flood. So they merit the afterlife too. However, about 800 years later, God gave another covenant to
17:5417 minutes, 54 secondsMoses and the Jews when they were at Mount Si. And uh anybody who wants to can join that covenant, that's called
18:0218 minutes, 2 secondsconverging to Judaism. But anybody that was not there at Sinai uh and we believe that the souls of many as yet unborn
18:1018 minutes, 10 secondspeople and the souls of converts were at Mount Si too and they all accepted this
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondscovenant. It was voluntary and the Jews said we accept it and it's considered kind of like a conversion to Judaism. M
18:2618 minutes, 26 secondsin fact one of the reasons the the holiday of the accepting of the Torah is coming up in a number of weeks and it's considered a conversion we the whole all
18:3418 minutes, 34 secondsMoses and the people that came and that was the beginning of the Jewish people that's where we were born and God said and we derive it from the Bible it's a
18:4318 minutes, 43 secondsbiblical law it has nothing to do with genes or DNA that if your mother is Jewish that means that the child born
18:5218 minutes, 52 secondsfrom that mother his soul was at m at Mount Si and he accepted that covenant in a previous life. Okay.
19:0019 minutesNow, if somebody comes to me and says,
19:0319 minutes, 3 seconds"Okay, Rabbi Shapiro, I believe in the Torah. I believe in Judaism. What does God want from me?" So, I don't know what to tell him yet. My first question is,
19:1319 minutes, 13 secondsokay, uh, is your mother Jewish? What covenant do you belong to? Do you belong to the Mosaic Covenant, for lack of a better term, that's what we'll call it,
19:2119 minutes, 21 secondsor to the Noahide covenant? If if two college roommates come to me and they say both say, "You know what? We want to know what God wants from us." So the one
19:3019 minutes, 30 secondswho according to the Torah is obligated to fulfill the Mosaic covenant tell you got 613 commandments and a whole lifestyle. You can only eat kosher food.
19:4219 minutes, 42 secondsYou have to pray with a uh prayer quorum. And what it basically means is that you were given an entire different
19:5019 minutes, 50 secondslifestyle by God. the other one, if he's not Jewish, uh if he's not a member of that covenant, I would say no, you have
19:5819 minutes, 58 secondsto fulfill the seven commandments and if you want, you can convert and then you you change covenants, perhaps even
20:0520 minutes, 5 secondschange religions. It's just a question of semantics. So in Judaism, we need there are two classifications.
20:1220 minutes, 12 secondsClassification number one, what covenant applies to you, the Mosaic or the Noahide?
20:1920 minutes, 19 secondsThe second one, second category is now that we know what covenant applies to you, are you compliant?
20:2620 minutes, 26 secondsSo the word Jew and non-Jew really refers in this in the context of secular Jew. It really refers to which covenant you belong to. So you as a secular Jew,
20:3720 minutes, 37 secondswhat that means is if you come to me and say, "Okay, rabbi, you know what? I see the light. I want to be religious. I want to be Jewish just like you." So you
20:4520 minutes, 45 secondsdon't need to convert to Judaism. You just need to repent from your atheism. You need to repent, not convert. Okay?
20:5220 minutes, 52 secondsBut perhaps um a friend of yours who is not Jewish, they currently belong to the other covenant and I would say they need a conversion.
21:0221 minutes, 2 secondsSo to to fulfill the same religion, you need a repentance and they need
21:0921 minutes, 9 secondsconversion. Now, you are already um obligated to fulfill the Jewish covenant. It's kind of like, you know,
21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsit it's rather than rather than genetics or DNA, the fact
21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsthat your mother is Jewish makes you Jewish. It's more like birthright citizenship. Birthright citizenship is not genetic.
21:3421 minutes, 34 secondsIt's not biological. No one's going to say that if you're born in America, the fact that the American law makes you a
21:4121 minutes, 41 secondscitizen is DNA. It's a legal status. In the same way, the fact that your
21:4821 minutes, 48 secondsmother's Jewish makes you Jewish means that you're bound to this covenant is similarly a covenantal status. It has
21:5721 minutes, 57 secondsnothing to do with biology, has nothing to do with race, it has nothing to do with DNA. It has only to do with illegal
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondsstatus, right? If you're one of your parents or I don't know, maybe other countries, it has to be your father,
22:1022 minutes, 10 secondsyour mother. I'm not sure how this works. Doesn't matter. Whatever the law says, if you're a citizen of this country, your child is automatically a citizen. That's not biology. That's a legal status.
22:2022 minutes, 20 secondsThe same thing with Judaism. So now, I would tell you, okay, uh Mr. Shapiro,
22:2622 minutes, 26 secondsyou are Jewish. You are obligated to fulfill the laws. Now you are an atheist and you deny that.
22:3222 minutes, 32 secondsSo you are what we call in Hebrew a kyifer.
22:3622 minutes, 36 secondsUh the Muslims actually have a very similar word kafir or something like that and it means the exact same thing.
22:4222 minutes, 42 secondsYou are a denier. You are for all practical purposes uh the same status as a
22:5022 minutes, 50 secondsYeah. you are not Jewish in regarding anything um except your obligations because just
22:5822 minutes, 58 secondsbecause you're a sinner, you can't sherk your obligations.
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondsHowever, you are still bound to that covenant and it is even though we're not a proitizing religion, we are a well,
23:1023 minutes, 10 secondsfor lack of a better term, we are a proitizing religion to get members of our covenant to repent. In other words,
23:1723 minutes, 17 secondswe're supposed to get people to repent, not necessarily to convert.
23:2223 minutes, 22 secondsUm, so I would, it would be a big mitzvah for me to get you to give up your atheism and uh believe in God and become religious. Not become Jewish,
23:3123 minutes, 31 secondsbecome religious. But currently,
23:3323 minutes, 33 secondsyou are for all practical purposes not part of the Jewish people. You're not part of the collective. Now,
23:4023 minutes, 40 secondsa lot of people won't tell you this. And the reason they won't tell you this is because it's part of our job to not
23:4723 minutes, 47 secondsproitize, but in Hebrew there's a word macar, which means to bring close, to bring you close, to make you into a
23:5423 minutes, 54 secondsbaluva, to make you repent. They want to they don't want to alienate you. Yeah. And what I just told you is possible.
24:0324 minutes, 3 secondsIt'll alienate you. So what they do instead is they'll say, "Okay, you know what?
24:0924 minutes, 9 secondsThey they want you to have some kind of connection. And they'll say, "Okay, you know, you're an atheist, but let me teach you about your heritage. Let me teach you about how you were persecuted.
24:2024 minutes, 20 secondsLet me teach you about how you're connected to me, even though you're not religious. How Hitler would have sent you to the concentration camp anyway,
24:2624 minutes, 26 secondsand he would have looked at you as a Jew in order for you to keep that connection to the Jewish people so that maybe one day you will want to become religious,
24:3824 minutes, 38 secondsright?" And that developed into an actual identity. There are Jews that
24:4424 minutes, 44 secondsthink that the major uh that being a Jew means part of being a people.
24:5124 minutes, 51 secondsAnd well, we are a people, but we're only a people because God gave us the Torah. In other words, we're a numor. We're a
24:5924 minutes, 59 secondsreligious collective. And there's a whole theology behind that. Part of the theology is that um you uh because you're an atheist,
25:1025 minutes, 10 secondsyou your your whole spiritual makeup is different. Judaism is a total meritocracy. Many people, mostly
25:1925 minutes, 19 secondsanti-semites or ignorant Jews, will tell you that they'll go into some Jewish books and they'll tell you, look, that
25:2625 minutes, 26 secondsthe the non-Jew is has a different spiritual status than a Jew. So never mind that in other religions like
25:3425 minutes, 34 secondsChristianity a Christian has a different spiritual status. They're saved than others and there's various different versions of but that's not even the
25:4125 minutes, 41 secondspoint. The point is that a non-religious Jew has the same status as a non-Jew regarding all privileges. It depends
25:5025 minutes, 50 secondsupon your actions and your beliefs and your behaviors. And there's there's Jew and All that means the only thing
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondsthat means is what covenant you belong to. and the theology that follows from it regarding after we know what covenant
26:0526 minutes, 5 secondsyou belong to. Now let's just take the Jewish covenant. Okay, the Mosaic.
26:1026 minutes, 10 secondsThere's sadic in Russia, righteous and wicked. There are wicked Jews. Wicked Jews we stay away from. We ostracize them. There are believers and there are
26:2026 minutes, 20 secondskifim, apicorim. Apicorim in English technically the closest word is epicurion. It's the same word but it really means somebody doesn't believe.
26:2826 minutes, 28 secondsthere Armenium different types of disbelievers and you are you you are basically for all practical purposes not
26:3526 minutes, 35 secondsonly uh not part of the Jewish people but in because Judaism is a complete meritocracy
26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsyou if you have a non-Jew who keeps the seven commandments doesn't worship idols doesn't kill doesn't steal all of those
26:5126 minutes, 51 secondsthings um he is closer to God and will merit the afterlife whereas you who are
26:5826 minutes, 58 secondsan atheist and deny the whole thing will not when you die boom it's over you're you're like you you get exactly what you
27:0627 minutes, 6 secondsbelieve you're going to get very simple now so so now I people in my position
27:1327 minutes, 13 secondsmeaning on the uh left side of this screen Jews kind of have a dilemma because they approach you and they think okay what what how am I going to relate
27:2127 minutes, 21 secondsto this guy now what I'm thinking is yes I don't want to alienate you but from what I know about you number one, I would
27:2927 minutes, 29 secondsprobably alienate you more if I would give you this fake Jewish identity that does wouldn't make sense to you and say
27:3627 minutes, 36 secondsthere's some kind of a I don't know tribe or uh I don't know some kind of
27:4327 minutes, 43 secondsconnection which is uh unintelligible um we're connected through anti-semmites
27:5127 minutes, 51 secondswhich actually Theodore Herzel believed that's the definition of a Jew. Jean Paul Satcher, the French philosopher,
27:5727 minutes, 57 secondssaid that that the anti-semite makes the Jew, not the Jew is the reason, not that the Jew comes first and then the anti-semite hates him. But there are two
28:0628 minutes, 6 secondsreasons I'm not going to do that. Number one, it's not going to do you any good.
28:0928 minutes, 9 secondsAnd and two, even more than that, it's it's bad. That's what allowed That's what opened the door for Zionism.
28:1728 minutes, 17 secondsExactly. And what happened was so getting back to the history so the Jews were allowed to uh freedom from religion
28:2528 minutes, 25 secondsand the ghetto originally about a thousand years ago in Spain the Jews because we need a whole different lifestyle. I need different foods. I
28:3328 minutes, 33 secondshave to have kosher food. I have to have schools for my children that teach Jewish studies. I can't send my kids to
28:4028 minutes, 40 secondspublic school be very very hard um in order to fulfill my religion, my covenant. We have to it's much easier if
28:5028 minutes, 50 secondswe're just together. We are always loyal to our countries. And I'm not going to use the word host country because that's that implies that I'm not American.
29:0029 minutesAmerica is my host country. That it's not true. I'm as American as anybody else. Um America is not my host country.
29:0729 minutes, 7 secondsIt is my country.
29:0929 minutes, 9 secondsWe're loyal to the country, but my freedom of religion allows me to create a cultural and again it doesn't mean
29:1629 minutes, 16 secondsJews are a culture, but once you uh once you have a group that's has to stick together. I mean look all it there is a culture that gets tacked on to it.
29:2729 minutes, 27 secondsThat's why you have Ashkanazi Jewish culture, Sardic Jewish. I mean all groups have cultures. Um baseball
29:3429 minutes, 34 secondsplayers. A baseball player is a somebody who plays baseball, right? But they also have a culture. Um I But if you but does
29:4429 minutes, 44 secondsif you embibbe in baseball player culture doesn't make you a baseball player. If you pour champagne over your friend's head to celebrate a thing or if
29:5329 minutes, 53 secondsyou and if you chew tobacco and if you give him a slap on the butt in order to congratulate him for something, that doesn't make you a baseball player. But
30:0130 minutes, 1 secondthat's baseball player culture. And there are Ashkanazi Jewish culture,
30:0530 minutes, 5 secondsSvadic Jewish, all groups that are together. Baseball players have a culture, right? Soccer fans have a culture. Um, but that's not what makes
30:1530 minutes, 15 secondsus Jews. What makes us Jews is one thing. It's the covenant. So, back what happened was that these Jews said, "Okay, we're going to assimilate.
30:2330 minutes, 23 secondsRussia, Germany, we don't even want to be Jews because being a Jew meant being religious. So, we're going to assimilate." uh they left the ghetto and
30:3330 minutes, 33 secondsthey the problem was that the non-Jews did not want them to assimilate their
30:3930 minutes, 39 secondspgrams. Russia 1881 started a lethal series of pgrams which which gave these
30:4630 minutes, 46 secondsassimilated Jews a big identity crisis that said we don't want to be Jews but the non-Jews won't let us be non-Jews and there are various different answers
30:5430 minutes, 54 secondscommunism was an answer especially in those days there was also all these isms coming out right because and and it was
31:0231 minutes, 2 secondsa a result of the downgrading of religion religious authority rather that gave rise to all these
31:1031 minutes, 10 secondsI don't want to call them spiritual but ideological ideological movements. So there was all sorts of movements.
31:1631 minutes, 16 secondsCommunism there are many Jews who thought that that is going to help the Jews because if you believe in communism part of is everybody gets treated equally right or equal opportunity etc.
31:2931 minutes, 29 secondsUm there was all sorts of isms and one of the isms that existed then that was born and went very strong probably the
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondsstrongest maybe ever ism is nationalism an entirely different identity. So there were Jews who said okay you know what if
31:4531 minutes, 45 secondsthe go don't want to allow us to play in their backyard uh we're going to make our own backyard and we're going to make a Jewish nationality.
31:5531 minutes, 55 secondsSo they were forced kind of to to um accept a Jewish identity without religion because they did not want
32:0332 minutes, 3 secondsreligion. But the non-Jews forced them to be Jews. So they had this identity crisis and this Zionism
32:1232 minutes, 12 secondsdeveloped. And by the way, these Zionists, they hated the religious Jews and to this day they do. And it's important to understand why Zion, why
32:2132 minutes, 21 secondsIsrael, if you want to know why Israel does what it does, I have prepared for you a whole bunch of books over here on my Oh, I'm excited. I love your I love your books.
32:2832 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. Yeah.
32:3032 minutes, 30 secondsI've prepared a whole bunch of these in order to uh show you there. There's so much about Zionism that people people don't know.
32:3832 minutes, 38 secondsBut what happened was they they said they blamed the Jews or the perception people had of Jews for anti-semitism.
32:4832 minutes, 48 secondsJabbatinsky for example and his version of Zionism is the dominant one in Israel today.
32:5532 minutes, 55 secondsUh Jabatinsky said quote I know I am a Zionist because the Jewish people are a
33:0233 minutes, 2 secondsnasty people. Its neighbors hate it and they're right.
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsOkay. And there were so many quotes. If you have my book, you'll see in there I have pages and pages of quotes. The Zionists hated the Jews. They they said,
33:1533 minutes, 15 seconds"Well, other Zionists, prominent Zionist said, well, if the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't we hate the Jews
33:2233 minutes, 22 secondsalso?" They wanted to be And the Goya wouldn't let them. Okay.
33:3033 minutes, 30 secondsSo, what they decided was, you know, we have to change the Jews. There are various different theories as to why the
33:3833 minutes, 38 secondsGoyam hate the Jews. And this is this is the question of anti-semitism.
33:4433 minutes, 44 secondsAnd one of the main ones, the ones the Zionists adopted was well just look at the Jews. Um
33:5133 minutes, 51 secondsand and what we have to do therefore is change the Jew. Yeah.
33:5633 minutes, 56 secondsAnd to give you an idea of what they hated in the Jews. So the Zionists said, "Well, the Jews are weak, immoral,
34:0234 minutes, 2 secondsdisgusting. They they look Jews had for example um it's not just like today you have an anti-semite he looks at a Jew with a
34:1034 minutes, 10 secondshooked nose that wasn't the point although Herzel did caricatururize Jews in his letters that he wrote and he
34:1934 minutes, 19 secondslodged dripping noses and stuff like that things like that he mentioned but yeah was this Jabatinsky even called them like not blessed with handsomeness
34:2734 minutes, 27 secondsor something like yes kind yes I'll I'll mention that in a moment.
34:3434 minutes, 34 secondsBut you see what they did was they actually blamed the Jewish religion.
34:3834 minutes, 38 secondsThey blamed the Jews being oppressed that gave them psychological problems.
34:4434 minutes, 44 secondsAnd because Jews are different, we have different aspirations. Remember, we're in this world uh to prepare for the next world. That's our purpose of being here.
34:5634 minutes, 56 secondsSo, and and I don't know if you've ever studied for a test. You probably have. and let's so for a week or two weeks,
35:0335 minutes, 3 secondshowever long, you lock yourself in a room, you close your phone, you say,
35:0735 minutes, 7 seconds"Leave me alone. I'll come come talk to me after I'm done."
35:1235 minutes, 12 secondsOur entire lifetime is preparing for a test. It's preparing for the big world series. We're we're training for that big performance that lasts forever in
35:2135 minutes, 21 secondsthe afterlife. Okay? Everybody can do it. and and the fact that Jews had yes
35:2735 minutes, 27 secondsthe Jews do have a higher place in that afterlife and that's because we trained all our life for it. If a non-Jew wants,
35:3635 minutes, 36 secondslet him join. There is going to be a performance after we all die. You want to train, come right ahead.
35:4435 minutes, 44 secondsCome, come ahead and do it. All it is is a conversion from one covenant to another. You want to train for the afterlife. You want to get our share that we get, come do it. No problem.
35:5635 minutes, 56 secondsBecome a Jew. Now, we don't encourage it because I know several people who decided to take this advice and become
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondsJewish and then after they see what it entails, they say, "All right, I changed my mind." The problem is once you become
36:1136 minutes, 11 secondsa Jew, now you cannot convert back. Once you accept the covenant of Moses and you say, "All right, I I change my mind."
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsYou don't become a again. What you become is a kifer. You be remember I
36:2736 minutes, 27 secondssaid that a religious non-Jew is closer to God, receives the afterlife as opposed to a non-religious Jew, meaning an atheist Jew.
36:3836 minutes, 38 secondsSo which is better? You're not doing the non-Jew any favors by begging him to convert or encouraging
36:4636 minutes, 46 secondshim to convert unless he knows for sure what he's getting into. It's very simple. Imagine you have uh and this is an analogy, not a comparison. Um imagine you have a bat boy that he says, "Okay,
36:5836 minutes, 58 secondsI want to be the the starting pitcher."
37:0237 minutes, 2 secondsYeah. You tell him, "No problem." I mean, you can't put him on the mound without training. You tell him, "Look,
37:0737 minutes, 7 secondsyou want to do that? Fine. Here's what it entails. You know what this guy went through in order to get that position?
37:1237 minutes, 12 secondsYou have to do the work." But he could actually say, "All right, this is not for me after a week." But imagine if you're stuck doing that work for the
37:2037 minutes, 20 secondsrest of your life and now you get punished from the manager. You get penalized and find if you don't come and train. You don't want to encourage them
37:2937 minutes, 29 secondsto to be become pitchers and players unless you know for sure they're up to it.
37:3637 minutes, 36 secondsThat's why it's has nothing to do with supremacy or superiority. It's very simple. Um it's Judaism is a preparation
37:4637 minutes, 46 secondsfor the next world. We spend our lives those Jews who don't such as you and again I don't this is nothing personal.
37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsYou know you no I you're not believing anything I say anyway which is fine. So people such as you
38:0138 minutes, 1 secondyou when I say Jew and we are getting the afterlife I don't include you.
38:0738 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. I include you and somebody who's obligated but atheists uh people like that I don't include. Now there is a
38:1538 minutes, 15 secondsthere is also God is fair. So if you come to God uh after when you meet him and you say look God you know I had a
38:2438 minutes, 24 secondsstupid Jewish upbringing. They told me Judaism is Zionism. You expect me to be Jewish and accept it? God may say okay you're not going to get punished because
38:3338 minutes, 33 secondsyou you you have a you're right. You're right. like you're you're in a messed up situation. It's like anybody else, you know, you come before the judge and you
38:4138 minutes, 41 secondssay, "Look, judge. Uh I was misled because of the law, whatever it is. Um there was no way for me to know know what this there wasn't a stop sign at the corner. I never saw the stop sign.
38:5238 minutes, 52 secondsYou're you're innocent. So you could be innocent, but your innocence is not going to give you the you're not going to be able to play in the World Series just because you're innocent."
39:0039 minutesYeah. Means you're not going to get punished.
39:0339 minutes, 3 secondsYou know what I'm saying? That's called we have a status like that, but that's up to everybody. You know, God judges.
39:0939 minutes, 9 secondsSo, I don't know what's going to happen to every any individual Jew, non religious, non-religious, or but we
39:1739 minutes, 17 secondscould guess, but um I can't say for sure what's going to happen to anybody. God judges, not me.
39:2439 minutes, 24 secondsLet let me jump in if if you don't is unless you're if No, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. First of all, I'll say I'm not offended by
39:3139 minutes, 31 secondsanything you said. Um, in fact, I um like I I don't really want to have a theological I I don't want to have a theological
39:3939 minutes, 39 secondsdebate on, you know, atheism versus, you know, humanism versus religion. I think I would love to have that. Maybe we can have that debate in the future on some
39:4739 minutes, 47 secondssort of philosophical thing. But I do want to turn it towards Zionism. But my u my first response to all of that,
39:5439 minutes, 54 secondswhich was is fascinating. I actually love this conversation already because it's the one I've always wanted because when I showed you those pictures of myself with, you know, the bar mitzvah and all these things, we went through
40:0240 minutes, 2 secondsthe motions. Everyone knows this like the the high holiday Jews, right? You know, we went three or four times a year. We did Hanukkah. Um but we didn't
40:1140 minutes, 11 secondsfollow any of those 613, right? We didn't keep kosher. We didn't do any of this. I think my dad may have been a believer, but my mom's an atheist. We
40:1840 minutes, 18 secondsdidn't talk about any of it. Um but the the thing that always so I was born in 1982 to give you some context
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsright around like a month I think before or after Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 and my entire life and my Jewish
40:3340 minutes, 33 secondsupbringing has been marked by this Zionism thing and my huge moral problems with it and my concern. And so just to to echo, and you'd probably love this,
40:4440 minutes, 44 secondsand my my family could co-sign this statement, by the time I was around 12 or 13 in those pictures, I was already getting really frustrated with the
40:5240 minutes, 52 secondsentire situation of my Jewishness, which was defined by a lot of the Israeli flag
40:5940 minutes, 59 secondson the Beimma. Um, you know, I went to Hebrew school. I did a lot of Jewish stuff. I was in the culture, but there was very little talk about moral
41:0741 minutes, 7 secondsphilosophy or belief or afterlife, the kind of stuff that I'm actually hugely interested in. Right. I ended up studying philosophy and I never got any of that from my Jewishness. But what I
41:1541 minutes, 15 secondsgot was this Israel thing is sort of a a default sort of thing you're supposed to support. And I hated everything about it. And what I always used to say and I
41:2441 minutes, 24 secondsthink you have the I want to ask you sort of you I think you have the best definition of Zionism and it's so simple that I've ever heard because all I ever
41:3141 minutes, 31 secondssaid was just let Judaism be a religion like all the others. Just let it be a religion like all the others and let Israel be a foreign country like all the
41:3941 minutes, 39 secondsothers. And if we do that, like can't we just do that? And so to answer your question, actually before you you answer, I you know, I call myself a Jew
41:4741 minutes, 47 secondsonly because they don't let me leave and it's the ethnicity people demanding that I just can't leave it even though like I
41:5541 minutes, 55 secondsI want the you're allowing me my exit card, which they never would allow me because they wouldn't let it just be a religion like anything else. And now
42:0242 minutes, 2 secondsbecause I'll give me your definition of Zionism because that's what I got and why it's so uh was so frustrating for
42:1042 minutes, 10 secondsme. So anyway, yeah, I love I loved that answer. It's what I've been waiting to hear since I was a kid.
42:1442 minutes, 14 secondsRight. So the definition of it Zionism will define itself in another couple minutes after I explain what they wanted to do. So Zionist figured, you know
42:2342 minutes, 23 secondswhat, let's fix the Jews. The main goal of Zionism was to fix the Jews. And basically they wanted to eliminate
42:3142 minutes, 31 secondsanti-semitism and not by eliminating anti-semitism.
42:3542 minutes, 35 secondsNow I'm using the word anti-semitism as meaning uh hate for Jews. Okay. So forget but by eliminating semitism
42:4342 minutes, 43 secondsmeaning by eliminating the Jews for all practical purposes and in the place of the Jews put a new people instead of the
42:5142 minutes, 51 secondsreligious Jew who aspires to the things I aspire to uh studying praying and I spend my life this is what I do
42:5942 minutes, 59 secondsfull-time I was a rabbi for many years I'm retired I spend the whole day on my Judaism and I hope that the time that I spent on other things making a living,
43:1043 minutes, 10 secondsvarious different things I could make up now so that and I hope God gives me a long life so I could continue preparing so when I meet him I'll be in good shape and maybe he'll give me a cleanup spot.
43:2143 minutes, 21 secondsOkay, in the batting order or something like that.
43:2343 minutes, 23 secondsI love all the baseball analogies by the way. I'm a huge fan. So keep them keep them coming.
43:2743 minutes, 27 secondsOkay. Excellent. So when I was a kid in when I was a kid I that because of my religion I just dropped it. It had no
43:3443 minutes, 34 secondsplace in 1969. I I became a Met fan uh because I live in New York and and my grandfather bought me a baseball cap
43:4243 minutes, 42 secondsfrom the had the New York Mets insignia on it and so I became a Mets fan. My brother had the Yankee cap and they won the World Series that year. What then the Miracle Mets? Yeah.
43:5143 minutes, 51 secondsListen, it's definitely the Mets winning the World Series in 1969 was definitely a bigger miracle than Israel winning the war in 1967. That's for sure. Even
43:5943 minutes, 59 secondsthough the Zionists all say it was a miracle, but then they lost in 7273. So I I just dropped them and I figured let me just go back to my religion and
44:0844 minutes, 8 secondsthat's that. I lo my other interests dropped. But um the Zionists figured give the Jews new
44:1644 minutes, 16 secondsaspirations. The Jews were literate. You know in uh compulsory education in Europe started in the 1800s. Compulsory
44:2444 minutes, 24 secondseducation by the for the Jews started 2,000 years ago. The high priest Joshua Bengamla made a rule. This is 2,000 years ago. Any town that doesn't have
44:3344 minutes, 33 secondsschools for kids, grade schools, is either destroyed or ostracized. I mean dismantled, not we don't bomb them, but
44:4044 minutes, 40 secondsuh dismantled or ostracized. You have to have schools. And however, there were no fiction literature put out by the Jews
44:4844 minutes, 48 secondsuntil the enlightenment and Jews became less religious or influenced by outside influences because all our literature,
44:5544 minutes, 55 secondsall our efforts, all our uh literacy uh went into religious studies. There are
45:0245 minutes, 2 secondsthousands and thousands of books and we we produced a wild amount of books and literature but all on religion.
45:1045 minutes, 10 secondsYeah. And uh the Zionist said, "No, we got to change that. Let the Jews who are crazy for doing this. Aspire to normal
45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsthings." Normal things meaning uh let them have Olympic gold medal winners,
45:2445 minutes, 24 secondsNobel Prize winners. Let them have a strong army. Especially the army that that the the anti-semitism. They looked
45:3145 minutes, 31 secondsat the Jews. Jews are pacifists by religion. our religion. Um,
45:3945 minutes, 39 secondsyou're going to ask me questions about the Bible. Okay, it all depends how you interpret the Bible. We can get there if you want. But the Jewish religion, what
45:4645 minutes, 46 secondsthey call in the street, which we don't call it, the rabbitic Judaism, we never use that phrase, but uh,
45:5545 minutes, 55 secondsjust as a point of reference, we we don't believe in wars. We believe in peace, peacefulness. Um, I could show
46:0446 minutes, 4 secondsyou rabbitic authorities that say the whole philosophy of war. War is a way of
46:1046 minutes, 10 secondsmurder making murder but justifiably you know things like that but that we
46:1646 minutes, 16 secondsbut if the go want to make wars okay that's their it's not our thing they want to make wars that's their business.
46:2546 minutes, 25 secondsThey can have their own philosophies and their own theology, right? As long as they keep the seven mitz uh seven uh commandments um and they avoid murder,
46:3646 minutes, 36 secondswhatever is considered murder, let them make laws. Not not my thing.
46:4146 minutes, 41 secondsYou know, I'm I'm against it, but it's not like we can enforce it on the non-Jews. That was never a thing.
46:4946 minutes, 49 secondsThat was very bad. The Zionists looked at that as shameful, cowardice. They confused pacifism for cowardice. They
46:5746 minutes, 57 secondsconfused the spirituality for um uh lack
47:0347 minutes, 3 secondsof life. Uh you know the a free there's
47:1047 minutes, 10 secondsa poem written by a guy Chennovski. He's his face is on the Israeli 50 uh shekel
47:1747 minutes, 17 secondsnote. It's called facing the statue of Apollo and he's talking to the Greek uh god Apollo and he's saying I'm coming back to you. I'm coming back to nature.
47:2847 minutes, 28 secondsI'm going to be a normal person and it ends it. It's all about how the Jews ran away from him and the Jews uh rejected
47:3547 minutes, 35 secondsnature. They rejected life. They rejected everything good. And they're busy with their stupid studies and religion. And in a poetic way it ends
47:4547 minutes, 45 secondsthat the Jews bound him bound life in the straps of the tilin. You know the tilin straps. So they took the straps
47:5247 minutes, 52 secondsand with those straps they tied they bound up life and like they tied godliness and and and nature and they
48:0048 minutestied themselves and in other words religion was a limitation was a way of getting away from life and nature and stuff like that. And the Zion is Zionism
48:0848 minutes, 8 secondshere's the thing it is an over compensation an overcorrection for the Jews. There is a one of the most important things you can know about
48:1648 minutes, 16 secondsZionism is that uh I'll read you in a moment what they from their own uh academics there is something called a
48:2448 minutes, 24 secondsgolist Jew an exile Jew that from the beginning of Zionism meaning from the beginning from the 1800s until today
48:3248 minutes, 32 secondsmeaning this week until today the Zionists are obsessed uh with the idea of not being the gullist Jew not being
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsthis weak pacifist Jew. Um, not letting people punch you in the face. Okay. Um,
48:4948 minutes, 49 secondsnot letting people harm you. Now, this is this was an imaginary boogeyman that the Zionists conjured an interpretation,
48:5748 minutes, 57 secondstheir interpretation, their caricature of the religious Jew that they're running away from. And they believed that when they overcorrect for it and
49:0749 minutes, 7 secondsthey're not that anymore, they get rid of these Jewish this this Jewish spiritual genes they have this this
49:1449 minutes, 14 secondsstuff that was knocked into their head for thousands of years. Then the whole world will love them. The last page of
49:2149 minutes, 21 secondsHerzel's uh book, The Jewish State, says as soon as Zionism gets off the ground,
49:2749 minutes, 27 secondsanti-semitism will disappear off the earth. And what you were referring to about Jabatinsky was in 1904 he made a
49:3549 minutes, 35 secondshe held a eulogy on Theodor Herzel and he explained there what Theodor Herzel was. He says he was the quintessential Zionist and he says if you want to know
49:4449 minutes, 44 secondswhat a Zionist is there is no picture to look at to see what is a picture of a
49:5049 minutes, 50 secondsZionist. Instead take aid. He used it as a derogatory term for Jew. Aid. Take a zid and take every character trait that
49:5949 minutes, 59 secondsa jid has. Imagine its diametrical opposite.
50:0350 minutes, 3 secondsPut all those diametric diametrically opposite traits in a human being. That's a Zionist. That's a Hebrew. Because Jews are weak. Z the Zionists are strong.
50:1550 minutes, 15 secondsBecause Jews are ugly. Zionists are handsome. Because Jews are cowards.
50:2050 minutes, 20 secondsZionists are the opposite. They're they're fearless. because Jews run away. Zionists are going to go to the world,
50:2850 minutes, 28 secondslook them in the eye and say I am a Zionist and they this militancy and this this everything it was only not to be a
50:3750 minutes, 37 secondsgouist now to the point where this is key to understanding Zionism
50:4450 minutes, 44 secondsbecause people don't understand what motivates the Zionists to do what they do.
50:5150 minutes, 51 secondsOkay. And the answer is Zionism.
50:5750 minutes, 57 secondsAnd right now I want to preempt the the whole idea that the Zionists are
51:0551 minutes, 5 secondsfollowing Talmudic Judaism or something like that. There's a history of that too.
51:1451 minutes, 14 secondsAnd I want to address if if I may this choseness business and this Talmud business and the Okay. Yes, the Jews
51:2251 minutes, 22 secondsbelieve they're the chosen people, but I want to explain what chosen people means. Now, you had on your podcast,
51:3251 minutes, 32 secondsum I believe it was Jeffrey Sachs that had mentioned that in rabbitic Judaism, being chosen is a burden.
51:3851 minutes, 38 secondsUm I wouldn't characterize it as a burden, but before I tell you what chosen means,
51:4451 minutes, 44 secondsI want to address what people means in Judaism. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
51:4851 minutes, 48 secondsOkay. Chosen means that okay first of all the word chosenness
51:5551 minutes, 55 secondsin that form doesn't appear anywhere I mean maybe somebody can find it on in a computer in some obscure place but
52:0352 minutes, 3 secondsthat's not even a word in Judaism that you know why it's not a word because
52:1252 minutes, 12 secondschosen simply means that God gave us this covenant that's it we have this it's a religion and and people have
52:2052 minutes, 20 secondsnothing to do with a particular people that by the way is projected onto Judaism by German nationalists.
52:3352 minutes, 33 secondsThe German nationalists I have a whole list over here had this concept of them being the chosen people
52:4152 minutes, 41 secondsbut they made it into a nationality into a racial thing into a people thing. In
52:4852 minutes, 48 secondsfact, they said that they there are those that said that they take the place of the Jews. There was Johan Fa that the Germans are an original people. In 1807,
53:0053 minutes1808 uh Houston Stewart Chamberlain uh he said he who does not believe in the in the divine mission of Germany had
53:0953 minutes, 9 secondsbetter hang himself and rather today instead of tomorrow. Again, God has in Luther practically chosen the German people and that can never be altered.
53:2053 minutes, 20 secondsFor is it not written in Romans 11:29,
53:2353 minutes, 23 secondsthe gifts and calling of God are without repentance? Warner Warner Sombart Germans were uh hated like the ancient
53:3153 minutes, 31 secondsJews because they were the quote representatives of God on earth. But the Germans and especially later they took
53:3953 minutes, 39 secondsthis chosen people concept and they made people into racial or political or national. For the Jews it was
53:4753 minutes, 47 secondscovenantal. There is no when we say people we just mean those people who follow the Jewish religion. It's not a people thing. It's not a racial thing.
53:5553 minutes, 55 secondsAnd to the point where this developed into Nazi Germany um especially with uh Paul Deagada,
54:0654 minutes, 6 secondshe was a a racist, a big racist and um
54:1254 minutes, 12 secondslate 1800s and he is widely understood to be have a big influence on Nazi ideology.
54:2154 minutes, 21 secondsand he said stuff like uh he called for a German national religion and he opposed the Jewish what he called Jewish
54:2954 minutes, 29 secondsdistinctiveness and quote preferential state of grace.
54:3354 minutes, 33 secondsOkay, he didn't use the exact phrase chosen people for Germans, but in his German writings, he says uh Jews, he's
54:4254 minutes, 42 secondsquoted, it says uh Jews could be accepted in Germany only if we they renounce their quote their insistence on
54:4954 minutes, 49 secondsbeing in a preferential state of grace along with quote their claims to world's dominance
54:5654 minutes, 56 secondsand quote their religion. The Germans changed the concept of chosen people to
55:0355 minutes, 3 secondschosen race to chosen nation. We are not a nationality. That's what the Zionists wanted. If you change the Jews into a
55:1155 minutes, 11 secondsnationality, they will have national aspirations. We are a religion. We only have religious aspirations. Okay?
55:1955 minutes, 19 secondsThe the now the and and because there was two steps. Step number one, they wanted the German.
55:2855 minutes, 28 secondsThey looked at Germans. Obviously,
55:3055 minutes, 30 secondsGermans are a nationality, right? And more than that, they had they developed this racial concept of nations, right?
55:3755 minutes, 37 secondsSo they if the Germans want to be chosen people or the nation or the ultimate nation, it has to be a racial,
55:4555 minutes, 45 secondspolitical, physical, DNA type thing. So now they these same people now they come become the white nationalists and they
55:5355 minutes, 53 secondsproject it onto the Jews. Oh, it's the choseness that causes them to believe that they are uh Aryans or stuff like
56:0056 minutesthat, right? They don't use the word aryans, but they're projecting their own thing. You will not find, look, I don't like Zionists. I wish that Zionism would
56:0856 minutes, 8 secondswould disappear off the face of the earth and Israel would was never created. Okay? And I I hate Zionism,
56:1656 minutes, 16 secondsbut you will not find the Zionists speaking though those memes on Twitter are fake. Oh, we're the chosen people.
56:2356 minutes, 23 secondsTherefore, we have we could do this or we could do that. They're not going to say that. They they're not they have no secrets about why they do what they do.
56:3156 minutes, 31 secondsIt's pretty obvious. But this is the way Nazi anti-semitism developed. First,
56:3856 minutes, 38 secondsthey said the Jews first they changed it to chosen people. And the word you that's why the word choseness doesn't come up. I'll tell you why.
56:4656 minutes, 46 secondsBecause let me ask you something.
56:5156 minutes, 51 secondsLet's say you were chosen to do jury duty. Yeah.
56:5656 minutes, 56 secondsAnd you're proud of fulfilling your civic duty.
57:0057 minutesWould you use choseness as a way to describe your being summoned to jury duty? You would not.
57:1057 minutes, 10 secondsWell, yeah. I mean, I guess not. Sort I think I think growing up I I heard and I'm just speculating here, but I heard chosen people used by Christians talking
57:1957 minutes, 19 secondsabout Jews more than anyone. I think it's that could Yes. But there's certain type of Christians and it could be I don't know how the evangelicals interpret
57:2857 minutes, 28 secondspeople because they think Israel is like Israel or the Bible today's Israel. I can only tell you how the Jews interpret
57:3557 minutes, 35 secondsit. And if you go and look for the word choseness in that form, you're not going to find it in Jewish literature. Maybe
57:4457 minutes, 44 secondssomebody will again somebody can find a computer and find that form of the word, but that's not how we use it.
57:5157 minutes, 51 secondsUm because it's like being chosen for jury duty. It's something we are proud of. Yes. But it's not a burden. It's
57:5857 minutes, 58 secondsbeing given the 613 commandments that anybody else can. And when we say people, it doesn't mean people singular in that sense. It means chosen people.
58:0758 minutes, 7 secondsIn fact, you know, and and when they get and also I I've noticed you've had this discussion, I think it was with Peter with Peter
58:1558 minutes, 15 secondsBiner regarding Goyam being derogatory. Not only is not only is it Let me ask something. What it's not derogatory,
58:2458 minutes, 24 secondsbut first before what word would you like me to use instead like in Hebrew or Yiddish?
58:3058 minutes, 30 secondsthat that is the only word that Jews have. No. Well, there is another one which is derogatory kind of in the
58:3858 minutes, 38 secondsBible. Non-Jews uh often are called arm uncircumcised. Would you prefer that? I don't think so.
58:4658 minutes, 46 secondsBut not only is it is it biblical word,
58:4958 minutes, 49 secondsbut the in the Bible used to refer to themselves as the So, for example, I have over here a
58:5658 minutes, 56 secondsBible and the light is dim, but I can and I'm an old man. You said you were born in 1982. I already had a kid in 1982.
59:0659 minutes, 6 secondsShapiro. Yeah.
59:0859 minutes, 8 secondsYes. Another Shapiro. This is uh by the numbers 239.
59:1659 minutes, 16 secondsBum or Balam in English I think it is says about the Jews.
59:2359 minutes, 23 secondsBehold a people that will dwell in solitude and not counted among the nations. The Hebrew word for not counted
59:3159 minutes, 31 secondsamong the nations is not counted among the This ago said it it is not derogatory at all. That is the only word. I mean, I remember when I
59:4059 minutes, 40 secondswas a kid, uh, they used to call black people negroes, and then they said,
59:4459 minutes, 44 seconds"That's derogatory. Change it. No problem." African-Americans, then colored people. That was also derogatory. And have no problem with not
59:5259 minutes, 52 secondssaying I agree. Der, it's all derogatory. No problem. But at least they gave us alternatives of what to call them. There is no Hebrew alter.
1:00:001 hourThat is the simple meaning, the simple word gentile. That's all it means.
1:00:041 hour, 4 secondsYeah. Now coming back to this the the the there are people who look at the Jews as
1:00:131 hour, 13 secondsa nationality maybe that's for sure Zionism uh in Zionism uh butresses that perception actually
1:00:221 hour, 22 secondsclaims that that's what the Jews are and the definition of Zionism is and this is not my definition it is number one I
1:00:291 hour, 29 secondssaid Israel Supreme Court had said this that the foundation stone of Zionism is the idea that the Jews are not just a religious identity but a national
1:00:371 hour, 37 secondsidentity and also that Israel is the state of that nation. Yeah.
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondsSo what Spain is to the Spanish, this is Avd Lieberman has it. It's on Israel's website. He wrote an article 2014 called
1:00:491 hour, 49 secondsthe meaning of uh Israel as the nation state of the Jews. What is a Jewish state? It means that Japan's to the
1:00:571 hour, 57 secondsJapanese what France is to the French what Israel is to the Jews. Without Zionism, Japan's to the Japanese, what Israel is to the Israelis, and the Jews are a religion. I'm a regular American.
1:01:081 hour, 1 minute, 8 secondsAnd what what see what happens to Judaism is that, okay, I'll bet you, I don't
1:01:151 hour, 1 minute, 15 secondsknow anything about your education, but I'll bet you that a lot of your education really was the Christian version of Judaism.
1:01:231 hour, 1 minute, 23 secondsI mean, I could tell you what I saw. I don't I don't know. Okay. Okay. Your viewers. Okay. Yeah,
1:01:291 hour, 1 minute, 29 secondssome trivia, some trivial um simple examples. Adam, you know the story of Adam? He ate from the tree of knowledge.
1:01:371 hour, 1 minute, 37 secondsHe got What was the fruit that Adam ate? It was an apple in my story. Okay, it was an apple. It was not.
1:01:431 hour, 1 minute, 43 secondsThat's Christianity. In Judaism, it was not an apple. The Bible doesn't identify the fruit. And Judaism, there's a disagreement amongst our sages what the
1:01:511 hour, 1 minute, 51 secondsfruit was. Maybe a grape, maybe a citron, maybe wheat, but nobody says it's an apple. Yet many Jews and even
1:01:581 hour, 1 minute, 58 secondsJewish illustrated books often make it an apple. And the reason is because this is a scholarly piece of trivia and the
1:02:061 hour, 2 minutes, 6 secondsbooks were made by Christians or Christian influence. It just gets out there that Adam ate an apple as we call it Adam's apple, right? And therefore,
1:02:141 hour, 2 minutes, 14 secondsand then it comes back into the Jewish community. Next question. What were the shape of the two tablets in the Ten Commandments? What was their shape? I
1:02:231 hour, 2 minutes, 23 secondsmean kind of a arch type kind of an arch again Christianity according to Judaism they were
1:02:301 hour, 2 minutes, 30 secondsrectangles no no rounds top and when after Christians always had that shape and when Rembrandt made his painting uh
1:02:391 hour, 2 minutes, 39 secondsthen it was clenched that was like locked in and there are many synagogues in fact majority of synagogues uh have
1:02:461 hour, 2 minutes, 46 secondsthe tablets shaped Jewish synagogues have the tablets the arch shape because all right it's not the end of the world so they
1:02:541 hour, 2 minutes, 54 secondsmade a mistake the people who make uh the arch the architects the people who design these things so they're not big scholars and we allow that one of the
1:03:031 hour, 3 minutes, 3 secondsthings that got that got out of Judaism got rebranded and then gets reflected
1:03:091 hour, 3 minutes, 9 secondsback on Judaism like the apple like the shape of the tablets is the idea of chosen people chosen people simply means and it's not
1:03:181 hour, 3 minutes, 18 secondseven used I in that word chosenist does not would not be a description of somebody who's chosen to have jury duty.
1:03:261 hour, 3 minutes, 26 secondsWe are chosen to fulfill 613 commandments. You know what Judaism is?
1:03:311 hour, 3 minutes, 31 secondsThe best example I could give. So let's say Christians and people other religions would understand it's a calling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:03:381 hour, 3 minutes, 38 secondsIt's a calling. Now the question is will you answer it? If you were born Jewish,
1:03:431 hour, 3 minutes, 43 secondsyou now have a calling to fulfill those 613.
1:03:461 hour, 3 minutes, 46 secondsWe are all called. How's that? Jews are the called people. We are chosen to fulfill commandments. If you don't fulfill them, you ignore your calling.
1:03:561 hour, 3 minutes, 56 secondsBut that's what it is. Anybody could do that.
1:03:591 hour, 3 minutes, 59 secondsSo, um Yeah. Yeah. If I if if I could slide in there because this this is fantastic.
1:04:061 hour, 4 minutes, 6 secondsThough at some point it's like um and for people who've never encountered a rabbi, this is kind of how it goes. You tell stories and you know and you go and
1:04:141 hour, 4 minutes, 14 secondsyou tell which is the way it goes, but it's it's and it's very legal. And so this is the thing um that is interesting is like when you said about uh you know
1:04:231 hour, 4 minutes, 23 secondsracial epithets for for for black people and this sort of like negroes in fashion then it's black then it's this then it's that and people are really offended by
1:04:311 hour, 4 minutes, 31 secondsthese terms at different times like at some point um how do we how do we we talk about maybe this is the problem of
1:04:391 hour, 4 minutes, 39 secondsthe Jewish identity because like my my mom watching this would be horrified being like who is this guy to tell me who I'm a Jew or it's a Jew or whatnot
1:04:471 hour, 4 minutes, 47 secondsand you're like, "Well, it's not me telling. It's this. It's God and it's all of these laws and like here's the prescription. It's a recipe. Follow the recipe and you could be a Jew, too." And
1:04:561 hour, 4 minutes, 56 secondsif she's like, "No, I you know, I don't want to do any of that." And I could put this poll on on the screen, a poll that I that I grew up with of the question to
1:05:041 hour, 5 minutes, 4 secondsAmericans in particular of what does what does it mean to be Jewish? What do you have to do to be a Jew in America?
1:05:101 hour, 5 minutes, 10 secondsthis story they were it was a Gallup poll that they asked over many years 41%
1:05:141 hour, 5 minutes, 14 secondsor something was supporting the state of Israel but other things on it were like having a Jewish sense of humor or like liking uh certain foods and that was
1:05:231 hour, 5 minutes, 23 secondswhat I grew up with and what I was so furious about because how can I leave an identity you know when it just becomes this amorphous identity thing and and I
1:05:311 hour, 5 minutes, 31 secondsguess this was the the success of Zionism and and the hijacking of the Jewish religion away from everything that you're laying out as a like it.
1:05:401 hour, 5 minutes, 40 secondsThere are rules. Follow the rules. You could be Jewish if you follow the covenant and that's it. It's not that complicated according to you. Yeah.
1:05:481 hour, 5 minutes, 48 secondsI mean, can we get a little philosophical here? Would love it.
1:05:521 hour, 5 minutes, 52 secondsWhen you say how could how does one be a Jew? That assumes that there's a group called Jews and the question is how does one become a member of that group.
1:06:021 hour, 6 minutes, 2 secondsRight. Right.
1:06:031 hour, 6 minutes, 3 secondsNow, in the definition of a group is a bunch of things that have something in common.
1:06:101 hour, 6 minutes, 10 secondsThat's true. Regarding if you a group of grocery stores, a group of apples, a group of baseball fans, a group of baseball players, tell me this this Jews that you speak of,
1:06:211 hour, 6 minutes, 21 secondswhat is what does it mean? How do you be a Jew? Tell me what you mean by that word Jew.
1:06:251 hour, 6 minutes, 25 secondsYeah. No, for me and listen listen like the the ironic part is I'm on your side and I always have been like I am I have been trying to shed my Jew. So, it's
1:06:341 hour, 6 minutes, 34 secondsthis bad. Uh, it's this bad that I was I didn't like my last name growing up, and I'm sorry if we share the last name, but
1:06:421 hour, 6 minutes, 42 secondsI didn't like it because in my world, in my Allentown, Pennsylvania conservative Judaism world that I was growing up in,
1:06:491 hour, 6 minutes, 49 secondsmy last name was an assumption to many people that I supported the state of Israel and Zionism when I had major and of course still have major moral
1:06:581 hour, 6 minutes, 58 secondsproblems with the way they operate. It's that bad. And you know, I think this kind of like this teenage angx I had about it offended my mom and whatever
1:07:061 hour, 7 minutes, 6 secondsbecause they're like, "No, that's who you are that you know, you can't get you can't get rid of this." You know, they want to make it a DNA. They want to make it a sort of heritage, a nationality,
1:07:141 hour, 7 minutes, 14 secondswhatever. But I'm on your side that it is a religion like any other. And I don't believe in it. So, I'm not a Jew.
1:07:201 hour, 7 minutes, 20 secondsI mean, what else is it? What does it even mean? Yeah. Tell me, let's say it's not a religion. What does it mean?
1:07:261 hour, 7 minutes, 26 secondsYou know, what ex what is it? I mean,
1:07:291 hour, 7 minutes, 29 secondsand and why would somebody care to be a Jew that they cannot even define? So, it's an ethnicity.
1:07:341 hour, 7 minutes, 34 secondsFine. You know, it's no problem. I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do this. When I say Jew and your mother says Jew,
1:07:421 hour, 7 minutes, 42 secondsit's just homonyms. That's all. You could make up a new Jewish identity.
1:07:471 hour, 7 minutes, 47 secondsAnd it's not a question of are you a Jew or not. If your mother says, "Who is he to tell me I'm not a Jew?" No, no
1:07:531 hour, 7 minutes, 53 secondsproblem. I I'm telling you that um God gave Moses the Torah and Mount Si. The Bible says
1:08:021 hour, 8 minutes, 2 secondsnow you became a people. Now you became a group. You want to say you're not part of that group. That's fine. As far as I'm concerned, you're Jewish in the
1:08:111 hour, 8 minutes, 11 secondssense that you are obligated. You you have a calling. You don't believe in that calling, but you're still a Jew. Imagine a Christian that says, you know,
1:08:191 hour, 8 minutes, 19 secondsI have a calling, but I don't believe in God. I have a calling to become a priest and sir, but I don't believe in God.
1:08:251 hour, 8 minutes, 25 secondsFine. Who are you to tell me if I have a calling or not? This is how I look at uh the atheist Jews. But let's assume that
1:08:331 hour, 8 minutes, 33 secondsshe's right. Let's say I would tell your mother, Mrs. Shapiro. Okay.
1:08:381 hour, 8 minutes, 38 secondsUm, no problem. Be a Jew. But we're not arguing. We're not disagreeing. You just have a def different definition of Jew
1:08:461 hour, 8 minutes, 46 secondsthan I do. It's a homonym. It's a homonym, you know, uh, to a musician, a gig is means something different than to
1:08:551 hour, 8 minutes, 55 secondsa a computer guy, right? A guy with a laptop. F16 to a fighter pilot means something different than it does to a
1:09:031 hour, 9 minutes, 3 secondsphotographer. And Jew, right? And Jew to me means something different than it does to your mother. Your mother's Let
1:09:121 hour, 9 minutes, 12 secondsyour mother define for herself what it means.
1:09:141 hour, 9 minutes, 14 secondsWhat? There's not one word Jew that everybody has to share. You agree or your mother agrees that she doesn't
1:09:231 hour, 9 minutes, 23 secondsbelieve that my Jewish people exist. How would your mother define my Jewishness different than I would? So now not only
1:09:311 hour, 9 minutes, 31 secondswould your mother say would your mother say I'm a Jew?
1:09:341 hour, 9 minutes, 34 secondsYeah. Yeah. Yeah. I now not so not only would your mother say she's Jew, she would insist that I
1:09:421 hour, 9 minutes, 42 secondshave to accept her definition of Jew because she doesn't believe in mine. Now the truth is that her def my definition
1:09:491 hour, 9 minutes, 49 secondsof Jew, Jewish people, she doesn't believe they exist. You don't. It's not that you don't believe you're a Jew. You don't believe the Jewish people exist.
1:09:561 hour, 9 minutes, 56 secondsThe Jewish people are those people who were uh deputized by God to fulfill the 613 commandments. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in the
1:10:051 hour, 10 minutes, 5 secondsrevelation of Mount Si. Without a revelation of Mount Si, there is no Jewish people. You don't believe they exist. And I don't believe your mother's Jews exist. There's no ethnic Jew.
1:10:161 hour, 10 minutes, 16 secondsI believe I believe that you believe it. So I believe you exist. 100% 100%. But if 100% but you don't
1:10:241 hour, 10 minutes, 24 secondsbelieve that my Jewishness is real.
1:10:291 hour, 10 minutes, 29 secondsThat's all it is. Nothing more and nothing less. Can I then my Yeah,
1:10:341 hour, 10 minutes, 34 secondstotally. I I was going to shift it to bring it back to the Israel Zionism thing because I want to stay on it is the religious Zionists in quotes. I'm sure you have a problem with that. The
1:10:421 hour, 10 minutes, 42 secondsBengavir types of the world. Just just playing your game a little bit and I just want to make sure I understand it.
1:10:481 hour, 10 minutes, 48 secondsUm you know, it's a very uh um legal sort of just like I said recipe of this is what it takes to be Jewish. These are
1:10:551 hour, 10 minutes, 55 secondsthe commandments. Follow it and you can get you know, you can be in shape for the the afterlife, whatever it is. Um
1:11:021 hour, 11 minutes, 2 secondsdoes if Ben Gier keeps kosher and keeps the 613 or whatever is he is he in the club is what is rel or or is it Yeah.
1:11:111 hour, 11 minutes, 11 secondsOkay. So once upon a time even the religious Zionists Rabbi Rhinus started something called the Misrai uh party and
1:11:211 hour, 11 minutes, 21 secondshe was at the first uh convention the first Zionist convention that Herzel convened and you know they voted for
1:11:281 hour, 11 minutes, 28 secondsUganda not Palestine.
1:11:301 hour, 11 minutes, 30 secondsI do know that and the reason is because they just wanted a safe place for Jews. What happened later is that there was a there developed in this nationalism
1:11:401 hour, 11 minutes, 40 secondsuh there was a rabbi cook who you're right it's very legal he added some what he did basically was he
1:11:481 hour, 11 minutes, 48 secondstook Hegelian nationalism Bergson Hegel herder this this type of nationalism reurgjurgitated
1:11:571 hour, 11 minutes, 57 secondsit in mystical rabbitical language published it and said this is Judaism so that you don't if you You have to be
1:12:051 hour, 12 minutes, 5 secondsreligious. No question. But if you but there there there's a soul of every nation and there's a uni soul and a uni
1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsmind of the nation. And this is Hegelian stuff. And if you are involved with the a with the people of Israel who are also
1:12:221 hour, 12 minutes, 22 secondslike a nation of course have to do with God. But he in short he mixed nationalism in to Judaism and said that
1:12:301 hour, 12 minutes, 30 secondsit's both. Look there are people who mix feminism into Judaism. and they have women rabbis. I don't believe in that.
1:12:361 hour, 12 minutes, 36 secondsAnd Zionists mixed in um nationalism to Judaism. And according to our version of Judaism, he's an idol worshipper.
1:12:461 hour, 12 minutes, 46 secondsBecause if you add national, he's an idol worshipper. So it's very simple. In the days of the Bible, Elijah the prophet, he told Bal worshippers who
1:12:551 hour, 12 minutes, 55 secondsalso were like Ben Gave. They kept the commandments and he told them
1:13:031 hour, 13 minutes, 3 secondsHow long are you going to straddle both sides of the fence? If if Hashem is God,
1:13:101 hour, 13 minutes, 10 secondsgo worship him and get rid of your Bal worship. If Bal is God, then get rid then don't be a religious Jew. And I
1:13:171 hour, 13 minutes, 17 secondstell Ben Gavir and there's a video of me speaking at a anti-Zionist rally rally in Manhattan when Ben Gave came to
1:13:251 hour, 13 minutes, 25 secondsAmerica uh on second day of Manhattan in front of the Israeli consulate and I said I quoted Elijah the prophet here
1:13:321 hour, 13 minutes, 32 secondsand I said Ben Gavir if you want to be Jewish repent right he has to repent not convert and we'll accept you with open
1:13:391 hour, 13 minutes, 39 secondsarms but if you want and get rid of your Zionism but if you want to be a Zionist take off your Yarmaka stop keeping Shabas and eat some pork.
1:13:481 hour, 13 minutes, 48 secondsMhm.
1:13:491 hour, 13 minutes, 49 secondsBecause he is on I mean I have stuff in common. Here's how I look at it. I have stuff in common with the Muslims, the monotheism of God. Uh we don't eat pork,
1:13:591 hour, 13 minutes, 59 secondsfor example. I have stuff in common with the Christians. They believe in the ten commandments. They believe in a messiah.
1:14:051 hour, 14 minutes, 5 secondsNot the one I believe in, but they believe in a messiah. And have stuff in common with Bengir. We put on fill and we keep shabas. But as far as I'm
1:14:141 hour, 14 minutes, 14 secondsconcerned, he's an idol worshiing religion and he we have a lot in common.
1:14:191 hour, 14 minutes, 19 secondsBut he is a deviant. Look, they're reformed Jews, conservative Jews.
1:14:241 hour, 14 minutes, 24 secondsBetween me and the reformed Jews in reformed Judaism, you don't even have to believe in God to be a rabbi. There's no requirement, right? And in Zionist Judaism, you could believe in Zionism.
1:14:341 hour, 14 minutes, 34 secondsThere's Jews for Jesus. They believe that Jesus is uh right now. Now, if a Jew for Jesus would put on fill in and keep Shabas, he would still be a Jew for
1:14:431 hour, 14 minutes, 43 secondsJesus. And I would still look at him as a Christian, half Jew, half Christian. I look at Ben Gavir as half Jew, half
1:14:511 hour, 14 minutes, 51 secondsZionist. There's Jews for Jesus and Jews for Zionism. Zionism is heresy and idol worship according to Judaism because the Jews are not a nationality. We do not
1:15:001 hour, 15 minuteshave a country. We have whatever country we are citizens of. The idea that the Jews are a nationality is changing what
1:15:071 hour, 15 minutes, 7 secondsthe Jewish people are. The idea that they're changing from a covenantal people to a nationality is politicizing
1:15:161 hour, 15 minutes, 16 secondsJudaism. See, and getting back to what the Zionists do, that's really what the
1:15:211 hour, 15 minutes, 21 secondsZionists did. They took the process of national the nationalization of the
1:15:281 hour, 15 minutes, 28 secondsJewish people was they took all our concepts our spiritual concepts and made them
1:15:361 hour, 15 minutes, 36 secondspolitical. They took the Holy Land and made it into a political national homeland. They took the Holy Language and made it into a
1:15:451 hour, 15 minutes, 45 secondsspeaking language. Now, somebody's going to say in biblical times, Jews spoke Hebrew, yes, but it wasn't a national language like uh something that that
1:15:531 hour, 15 minutes, 53 secondsthat made us into a people. The only thing that make us into makes us into a people is the Torah. It doesn't make any
1:16:001 hour, 16 minutessense logically if you if you don't believe in the Torah uh to take your
1:16:061 hour, 16 minutes, 6 secondsJudaism and say you're bound to have loyalty or to support any country. How does that even make any sense? You're an American. Do you always support America?
1:16:171 hour, 16 minutes, 17 secondsYou you're you're not born in Israel. What what um let me ask you something,
1:16:221 hour, 16 minutes, 22 secondsJay. Um am I right? Did I hear you once say on a podcast or was maybe somebody else that
1:16:301 hour, 16 minutes, 30 secondsyour mother or your father did not want you to go out with gentile women?
1:16:371 hour, 16 minutes, 37 secondsUh to marry a gentile?
1:16:401 hour, 16 minutes, 40 secondsYeah, she definitely Yeah, she she grew out of it. But there there was like an assumption that my brother and I would would sort of keep let me something.
1:16:501 hour, 16 minutes, 50 secondsAs far as I'm concerned, that's racism. Yeah,
1:16:551 hour, 16 minutes, 55 secondsI can't marry a gentile woman. Not because I don't want to, but because my religion doesn't let me. Aside from which, it would be quite difficult to
1:17:041 hour, 17 minutes, 4 secondsbring up a Jewish family and fulfill my religion if I'm married to a non-Jewish woman. We have non-Jewish kids. I know
1:17:121 hour, 17 minutes, 12 secondspeople, two people actually, who are married to non-Jewish women, want to become religious. They're Jewish, but
1:17:191 hour, 17 minutes, 19 secondsthey are stuck. They tell me, "We're I'm stuck. What am I supposed to do?"
1:17:221 hour, 17 minutes, 22 secondsUm, I have religious restrictions. There are certain people if you are a descendant paternally of Moses' brother Aaron,
1:17:321 hour, 17 minutes, 32 secondsyou are not allowed to marry a divorced woman, Jewish divorced woman, you can't. We have all sorts of laws. Yeah.
1:17:381 hour, 17 minutes, 38 secondsUm, but if you don't believe in those laws, how does it make sense?
1:17:441 hour, 17 minutes, 44 secondsWhy? What does it even mean when you say don't marry a non-Jewish woman? Now,
1:17:491 hour, 17 minutes, 49 secondsmore than that, I'm going to ask you this. We know it's absurd and everybody makes fun of the Zionists, the atheist Zionists who say, "I don't believe in God, but he gave me the land." Right.
1:17:581 hour, 17 minutes, 58 secondsRight. Right.
1:17:581 hour, 17 minutes, 58 secondsTell me why saying I don't believe in God, but don't marry a non-Jewish woman, Yeah.
1:18:061 hour, 18 minutes, 6 secondsis any less absurd. It's the same absurdity. The only difference between you, what is the difference between you and a non-Jewish woman? Why is that even
1:18:141 hour, 18 minutes, 14 secondsan intermarriage? If if you were to marry a Jewish Puerto Rican woman or a Jewish black woman or a Jewish your mother wouldn't have objections, right?
1:18:241 hour, 18 minutes, 24 secondsUh let's assume. But a non-Jewish white woman, she would why the ethnicity or or Jewish Mexican woman,
1:18:331 hour, 18 minutes, 33 secondswhy? How does that make any sense for me? It's a religious thing. It's a religious restriction. But I have to I
1:18:411 hour, 18 minutes, 41 secondshave to interject because it's like I think they're all I think all of that's absurd including yours because it's just as
1:18:481 hour, 18 minutes, 48 secondsjust as arbit it's not a question of arbitrary if if you believe that God gave this religion
1:18:551 hour, 18 minutes, 55 secondsthat's what you object to but once you have that belief then whatever God said you have to do but it it's not a question of absurd you
1:19:031 hour, 19 minutes, 3 secondsbelieve it's untrue that God gave it you may believe the idea that God gave Torah is absurd.
1:19:101 hour, 19 minutes, 10 secondsI could I could have a philosophical endeavor, but that's the point of contention. If you
1:19:171 hour, 19 minutes, 17 secondsbelieve in a religion, then it makes Okay. But your mother who does not believe in a religion, what is her you tell me?
1:19:261 hour, 19 minutes, 26 secondsI could try to I could try to answer for her. It's I mean, it's obviously it's obviously more psychological. It's some sort of honoring this like um uh she
1:19:361 hour, 19 minutes, 36 secondsfinds value, emotional value, romantic value in the traditions, the music, even
1:19:431 hour, 19 minutes, 43 secondsyour your world and your story. I I I mean the thing you said before, and I I'll answer it this way, and I've said this before on the podcast. Um the
1:19:511 hour, 19 minutes, 51 secondsreligion I grew up with was 100% defined by the Holocaust. It really was postholoc American Ashkanazi Jew. So the
1:20:001 hour, 20 minutesby by me not lighting candles on Shabbat, by me not participating in the holidays, by me marrying a which I did, a shika as I guess this is called,
1:20:101 hour, 20 minutes, 10 secondswhich I did, is in some ways, and by the way, to her credit, she loves she loves her like this. She's she was over this, but it was a thing in my teenage years.
1:20:181 hour, 20 minutes, 18 secondsUm it's somehow um dishonoring this legacy of they tried to kill us but we
1:20:241 hour, 20 minutes, 24 secondspersisted and if we if I somehow who's the us and who's the they it's more esoteric. It's not it's not
1:20:321 hour, 20 minutes, 32 secondscommanded by God. It's more it's more emotional sort of tying and that's what I say. See I say
1:20:391 hour, 20 minutes, 39 secondslogically you could disagree and we could argue about it. God gave the Torah to Moses and therefore I have very it's very logical. Now, you may disagree with it and you may say, "No, you're wrong."
1:20:501 hour, 20 minutes, 50 secondsAnd if you want, you can tell me, "Well,
1:20:521 hour, 20 minutes, 52 secondshere's where I think is the flaw in your logic and you probably have a lot to say about that and we can argue about it." But I'm not just saying, "Okay,
1:20:591 hour, 20 minutes, 59 secondsyours is 100% logical." If if I could if I can interject with it there just because I think this is important because because of something you said earlier to slide in there is like you
1:21:071 hour, 21 minutes, 7 secondsyou and the the Jewish traditions that you represent, which I think are are Jews. I think you have this right. I'll stop saying rabbitic Jews. I think it's Judaism is very legal. It's very
1:21:151 hour, 21 minutes, 15 secondstechnical. Like I've tried to go through the Talmud and it's like reading a you know it's like lawyers debating a million things over and over again. Um
1:21:231 hour, 21 minutes, 23 secondsyou're trying to figure out how to follow the rules because you think the rules are commanded by God and that's the recipe for for not just the good life but the the life commanded by God.
1:21:321 hour, 21 minutes, 32 secondsBut in that you did say in passing that like you know a woman rabbi is against the rules. And I would say like okay I
1:21:401 hour, 21 minutes, 40 secondsbelieve you that you're reading that interpretation correctly. So I don't have a logical problem with it. I have a moral problem with it. And I think so
1:21:481 hour, 21 minutes, 48 secondsthis is just to put a little drop of moral philosophy. I don't want to derail it, but I want but let me let me just finish let me just finish like my
1:21:561 hour, 21 minutes, 56 secondssentence of the like per this is my my uh thinking that I think moral philosophy precedes an encounter with any universe and it's why I'm an atheist. You could say that way.
1:22:061 hour, 22 minutes, 6 secondsI think it precedes an encounter with God. Or you could say I'm a pantheist,
1:22:091 hour, 22 minutes, 9 secondswhatever. That God is a the same thing as existence itself. These all work for me, but it's certainly not Judaism. I certainly don't follow the Jewish description of things.
1:22:181 hour, 22 minutes, 18 secondsAgreed. As far as morals are concerned to Judaism, this is not a moral issue,
1:22:231 hour, 22 minutes, 23 secondsnor more I mean, do you have complaints about God that he said women can have babies and not men or that men don't menstruate?
1:22:311 hour, 22 minutes, 31 secondsI have I I have I have a lot of complaints about God. I actually maybe no problem. But just as a body has biology, so does a soul. And God's rules
1:22:411 hour, 22 minutes, 41 secondsare, you know, in other words, it's not a question. We cannot look at Judaism as a religion created by people in order to lead a spiritual life or a moral life,
1:22:521 hour, 22 minutes, 52 secondsalthough we believe it does. Instead, God created a soul which is part of God.
1:22:571 hour, 22 minutes, 57 secondsAnd a soul is really the wrong word. God created a nishama because it's really not soul. It's not the same thing that
1:23:041 hour, 23 minutes, 4 secondsChristians like believe in when they call soul. There's different spiritual parts of a people. There's a life force,
1:23:111 hour, 23 minutes, 11 secondsthere's an iss and this this is what connects a person to God. And just like people have
1:23:191 hour, 23 minutes, 19 secondsdifferent bodies and people with different bodies have different god-given jobs.
1:23:241 hour, 23 minutes, 24 secondsThe job of a woman by that nature which I will make put a capital N there and reference God over there, right? Is to
1:23:321 hour, 23 minutes, 32 secondsbe a loving mother. The job of men is not to be a a loving mother. There's no way out of that. Now, you may say you
1:23:401 hour, 23 minutes, 40 secondscomplain about nature and God was unfair. You may say that God is unm and and there's a reason behind this.
1:23:501 hour, 23 minutes, 50 secondsThe reason behind this is is is as follows. I don't know if you've ever been a teacher or a student. You certainly have.
1:23:561 hour, 23 minutes, 56 secondsUm a teacher that gives every single student the exact same test is being unfair.
1:24:041 hour, 24 minutes, 4 secondsSome students are better at multiple choice. Some students are better at um uh essays. Some students are better at fill in the blanks. Some students have
1:24:121 hour, 24 minutes, 12 secondsdidn't sleep had a didn't sleep well the night before. Certain. Now, you cannot give every student a custommade test
1:24:201 hour, 24 minutes, 20 secondsbecause the teacher is not God. And how's he going to know to do it to make everything fair?
1:24:241 hour, 24 minutes, 24 secondsBut if you are God, you can. So God looks at this soul and before he decides whether to make it a man or a woman, he says, "What kind of challenges and tests
1:24:331 hour, 24 minutes, 33 secondsdo I want to give this being when he goes into this world? Do I want to make make see whether this person is going to
1:24:411 hour, 24 minutes, 41 secondsbe a good mother? Do I want to see whether this person is going to be a good rabbi?" And it all depends upon what's best for the particular
1:24:481 hour, 24 minutes, 48 secondsindividual because God created everybody individuals. And then God makes the person's life. It's a reverse
1:24:571 hour, 24 minutes, 57 secondsengineering. It's not that God created men and women and say, "I'm going to treat them differently." On the contrary, God looks at these generic
1:25:041 hour, 25 minutes, 4 secondssouls and says, "This person is a human being with free will." But each one is an individual with individual
1:25:121 hour, 25 minutes, 12 secondspersonality, individual free will. What is the best possible time to make this person born in the uh in Roman Empire
1:25:191 hour, 25 minutes, 19 seconds2,000 years ago or in America in the 21st century? Should I make it a man or a woman? Should I make him strong or weak? Should I make him rich or poor?
1:25:271 hour, 25 minutes, 27 secondsAnd whatever circumstances God gives this soul, that's his that's like the CEO gives you a God-given job. Gives you
1:25:341 hour, 25 minutes, 34 secondsa CEO given job. And he knows his employees well enough to know what's best for them. So theologically again if
1:25:411 hour, 25 minutes, 41 secondsyou believe in Judaism then the moral uh complaint is not really a complaint because it's reverse engineered. What we
1:25:491 hour, 25 minutes, 49 secondscannot do in Judaism if you believe this then you don't believe in Judaism and I think then chuck the whole religion. If Judaism is just a way for spirituality
1:25:571 hour, 25 minutes, 57 secondsor morals or something like that chuck the whole thing the only it doesn't make any sense then you're right. The only
1:26:041 hour, 26 minutes, 4 secondsreason I'm I am religious is because I believe God gave Moses the Torah on Mount Si and there was a revelation etc
1:26:121 hour, 26 minutes, 12 secondsetc. Now I if I'm wrong if I would be wrong I'm not but if I would be wrong then the whole thing is worthless but this is for sure you
1:26:201 hour, 26 minutes, 20 secondsnobody could project their own idea of how religion started or what the purpose of religion is on religious people.
1:26:301 hour, 26 minutes, 30 secondsThere may be religions like that that say, "Okay, let's be spiritual." Maybe Eastern religions, you know, stuff like that. Um, but it's not a question of
1:26:371 hour, 26 minutes, 37 secondsmorality. It's more a question of of uh spiritual biology, you would say, or God giving everybody circumstances that are
1:26:441 hour, 26 minutes, 44 secondsindividual. On the contrary, if God would give everybody the same job, he'd be unfair. In every in every aspect of life, if your boss, whatever you do for
1:26:531 hour, 26 minutes, 53 secondsa living, would give every single person the same same tasks, it would be unfair.
1:26:581 hour, 26 minutes, 58 secondsYeah. God is not unfair and he knows deeply perfectly he created every individual as an individual. So reverse
1:27:061 hour, 27 minutes, 6 secondsengineering he gives them a life and circumstances then laws and said this law applies to you. Yeah.
1:27:121 hour, 27 minutes, 12 secondsI'm going this law applies to you. It's not a moral question.
1:27:151 hour, 27 minutes, 15 secondsYeah. Yeah. I I mean let's get back to to Zionism. I mean, I don't want to derail it totally into a although I love it a theological discussion because I uh
1:27:241 hour, 27 minutes, 24 secondsfree will or some of my favorite I think a lot of that falls apart when you do push it. I'm not trying to get you to chuck your religion on this call today.
1:27:311 hour, 27 minutes, 31 secondsRobert Seapolski who grew up as an as an or I probably won't be able to do it. You could try. No try.
1:27:381 hour, 27 minutes, 38 secondsBut but to bring it back to to the Zionism thing, uh it does bring up the the the question of like of course you and I approach the philosophical existential questions very differently.
1:27:481 hour, 27 minutes, 48 secondsUh, but the one that we really really agree on is Zionism is a horrible thing and you're getting it from because your Judaism says Zionism is is ideology and and is terrible.
1:27:581 hour, 27 minutes, 58 secondsNo, no, I'm sorry. So, so let me let me let me um rewind a bit.
1:28:051 hour, 28 minutes, 5 secondsYeah. Judaism requires people to be good, moral,
1:28:141 hour, 28 minutes, 14 secondsmerciful, um, peaceful, etc. Remember,
1:28:181 hour, 28 minutes, 18 secondsZionism was designed specifically to overcorrect for the Jewish personality. If the Jewish personality is peaceful,
1:28:281 hour, 28 minutes, 28 secondsmoral, good,
1:28:301 hour, 28 minutes, 30 secondsand the Zionist specifically wanted to get away from that. Everything that the Zionists are, you want to know what a Jew is? Two ways to understand. Okay,
1:28:391 hour, 28 minutes, 39 secondsask somebody like me, I'll tell you. Or look at the Zionists and imagine the exact opposite and that's a Jew. And that's not me talking, that's
1:28:461 hour, 28 minutes, 46 secondsJabbatinsky talking. Okay. Um now as far as the continue that Talmud is concerned
1:28:551 hour, 28 minutes, 55 secondsyou see the do you know that I want to tell you it's it's very disturbing it's
1:29:031 hour, 29 minutes, 3 secondsit's bothersome the Zionists so they took everything they made all the holy spiritual aspects
1:29:111 hour, 29 minutes, 11 secondsinto political physical aspects to the Jews even genealogy is spiritual a converts to Judaism is considered this
1:29:181 hour, 29 minutes, 18 secondsnish Sha spiritually uh descended of Abraham
1:29:251 hour, 29 minutes, 25 secondsand somebody who is a kifer such as somebody who's an atheist we he's not even considered descendants of though
1:29:321 hour, 29 minutes, 32 secondshis soul but not again soul is a colloquialism is not descended of those that stood at mount si
1:29:401 hour, 29 minutes, 40 secondsyeah I wasn't there I guess yeah and well it's your choice in others again Judaism is a meritocracy you
1:29:471 hour, 29 minutes, 47 secondschoose your status as a Jew or a non-Jew. You choose your status as righteous or evil. You choose your
1:29:541 hour, 29 minutes, 54 secondsstatus as believer or non-believer. You choose everything. And yes, free will is a miracle by God because physically feel
1:30:021 hour, 30 minutes, 2 secondsfree will doesn't make any sense. And when it says in the Bible, God blew from himself the breath of life.
1:30:101 hour, 30 minutes, 10 secondsThe breath is nishama. It's the same word into he blew a nishama into a person. What that means is according to
1:30:191 hour, 30 minutes, 19 secondsour tradition that God who I'm sure you've heard it is the first cause the cause of causes right so God allowed
1:30:271 hour, 30 minutes, 27 secondspeople he gave people free will right there he gave a piece of godliness which means he allowed only regarding those
1:30:341 hour, 30 minutes, 34 secondsaspects of religion that God gave us free will in regard to to be a first cause it's a miracle you're right it's a
1:30:411 hour, 30 minutes, 41 secondsmiracle physical world no such thing as free will I agree it's that a shama quote unquote a soul that allows free
1:30:501 hour, 30 minutes, 50 secondswill because that's what it means when we're in the image of God. Image of God means that we have free will to be a
1:30:571 hour, 30 minutes, 57 secondsfirst cause meaning to do limited not like God but to do in limited aspects what God did because God has no cause
1:31:051 hour, 31 minutes, 5 secondsthat caused him. Meaning we have free will. You're right. It's a miracle. And all aspects of Judaism is free will. If you want you could repent. If you want
1:31:141 hour, 31 minutes, 14 secondsyou will not. If you want, you could whatever you want. But and the Zionist took all of these things and made Judaism political.
1:31:251 hour, 31 minutes, 25 secondsJudaism is very almost I mean so many concepts are spiritual. Even the concept of Jerusalem and the land, it's the
1:31:341 hour, 31 minutes, 34 secondsholiness of the land and the spiritual aspects of the land. Not the sovereignty over the land and not the blood and uh
1:31:411 hour, 31 minutes, 41 secondsdirt of the land, blood and soil of the land that matters. It's the spiritual aspect of the land. You can call it the soul of the land. To the Zionists, it's
1:31:501 hour, 31 minutes, 50 secondsthe opposite. Being Jewish is some kind of ethnicity or race or whatever they define it. They have not been able to do
1:31:571 hour, 31 minutes, 57 secondsit or nationality. The the the Israel is a homeland, not a holy land.
1:32:041 hour, 32 minutes, 4 secondsAnd they and the anti-semites physicalize uh the aspects of Judaism. to the
1:32:101 hour, 32 minutes, 10 secondsanti-semmites. I'm talking about the uh German nationalist type, Nazi type anti-semmites. Jews are a race. They're
1:32:191 hour, 32 minutes, 19 secondsnot a spiritual people. They're a they're a Hitler wrote in Minecom chapter 2 that it's a lie that the Jews
1:32:261 hour, 32 minutes, 26 secondssay that they're only a religion. And the proof is, you know what he said?
1:32:301 hour, 32 minutes, 30 secondsChapter 2, Minecom, it's called, I think,
1:32:331 hour, 32 minutes, 33 secondsuh, my life in Vienna, my life and studies in Vienna. it's called. He says that it's one of the big lies that the Jews say that they're regular Germans.
1:32:411 hour, 32 minutes, 41 secondsIt's just that they practice a different religion and it's not true. They're completely separate people. Now remember to Germans people a guy like Hitler people and race.
1:32:511 hour, 32 minutes, 51 secondsAnd the proof is is any doubt that I had was alleviated by a group of Jews called Zionists who emphasize the national character of
1:32:591 hour, 32 minutes, 59 secondsthe Jews. And the Jews that aren't Zionists don't believe them that they're not Zionists. They don't disavow or or kick these people out of Judaism. So,
1:33:091 hour, 33 minutes, 9 secondsthis is the stuff you're hearing today. This stuff is you're hearing today. Now,
1:33:141 hour, 33 minutes, 14 secondsthe Talmud stuff is also one of those things.
1:33:171 hour, 33 minutes, 17 secondsThe the You want to know what the irony over here is that in the public schools in Israel, they
1:33:261 hour, 33 minutes, 26 secondsdon't teach Talmud. It's not part of the curriculum.
1:33:291 hour, 33 minutes, 29 secondsNot at all. A guy like Netanyahu, not only did he never have a Jewish religious education,
1:33:361 hour, 33 minutes, 36 secondshe went to public school, Israeli public, an American public school. He went he never had a Jewish education. He
1:33:431 hour, 33 minutes, 43 secondsnever studied Talmud in his life. He probably couldn't read it because it's not Hebrew. It's Aramaic. It's a different lang similar and you could
1:33:511 hour, 33 minutes, 51 secondskind of make out words, but he will not be able to understand it. He wouldn't understand. He never studied it. In fact, because the Talmud is what enjoins
1:34:011 hour, 34 minutes, 1 secondthese Jews to be peaceful, etc. I'm going to read you now from a book called The Zionist Ideology, Gideon Shimoni.
1:34:071 hour, 34 minutes, 7 secondsHe's an academic in Israel. Quote, it's called Zionism as a secular Jewish identity. This chapter they favored
1:34:151 hour, 34 minutes, 15 secondsreligious traditions in so far as these could be pressed into the servant of service of militant nationalism. They
1:34:221 hour, 34 minutes, 22 secondsstridently extolled whatever strains of national assertiveness they could select out of the religion in Jewish history
1:34:281 hour, 34 minutes, 28 secondsand contemptuously rejected whatever smacked of abstract spirituality and political passivity. In their eyes, the
1:34:371 hour, 34 minutes, 37 secondsBible was the main repository of the positive elements whereas theological spirituality and passivity were the
1:34:441 hour, 34 minutes, 44 secondsunfortunate legacy of the Talmud and later rabbitic literature. They do not teach. You can ask your any an AI what
1:34:521 hour, 34 minutes, 52 secondsthe curriculum is in Israeli public schools and ask them why they don't teach Talmud. And the answer is number one it's not theological their curriculum is more national.
1:35:041 hour, 35 minutes, 4 secondsNumber two it's written in Aramaic and number three understanding it is a discipline not uh just something to
1:35:111 hour, 35 minutes, 11 secondsread. In other words it doesn't fit in with Zionism. So what happened was they took Judaism and made a they made a
1:35:191 hour, 35 minutes, 19 secondscaricature of it. These same people that are saying with this business with the choseness which is a German nationalist
1:35:271 hour, 35 minutes, 27 secondsunderstanding of it are the same people that are saying these Zionists are following the Talmud. It's just the opposite. They're trying to run away from the Talmud. And this also has a history. I have in front of me a book.
1:35:381 hour, 35 minutes, 38 secondsIt's called the Talmud unmasked. The secret teachings is concerning of concern or secret rabbitical teachings
1:35:451 hour, 35 minutes, 45 secondsconcerning Christians by a reverend IB prrenatus prrenitis excuse me April 13th
1:35:511 hour, 35 minutes, 51 seconds1892 it's a reprint so this prrenitis has all of these um they're fake quotes
1:35:591 hour, 35 minutes, 59 secondshalf quotes threequarters quotes and it's not only quotes it's it's not only mis quotes the the main part is
1:36:071 hour, 36 minutes, 7 secondsthat they're missing the other quotes that temper the first quotes. Uh, and by the way, this guy pronitis was exposed
1:36:161 hour, 36 minutes, 16 secondsas a phony in a court case. This a guy Mendel Bis um a blood liel. There was a court case and on cross-examination
1:36:251 hour, 36 minutes, 25 secondsthey asked him what does aven mean? It's a name of a trackate in the Talmud doesn't know and something else he doesn't know. And then they asked him
1:36:331 hour, 36 minutes, 33 secondswhat is Bubba who is Baba Basra. Now Bubba Basra sounds like a grandmother because Bubba, you know,
1:36:401 hour, 36 minutes, 40 secondsbut actually it's the name of a trackate. He said I don't know who who he or she is. Whatever.
1:36:451 hour, 36 minutes, 45 secondsUm the one thing I do want to mention and I sent you my conversation with about this
1:36:531 hour, 36 minutes, 53 secondsJeffrey Epstein did not have a Talmud in back of him. That is not a Talmud. Oh yeah. What was that?
1:36:591 hour, 36 minutes, 59 secondsI have no idea. But it's not a Talmud. I have no idea. It's not a not one of our Jewish books. There is no such thing as a 37 or 36 whatever volume Talmud that looks like that.
1:37:081 hour, 37 minutes, 8 secondsI don't know what it I have no idea. It could be anything. So here's what happened. They, you know, I always give this example. There was once
1:37:151 hour, 37 minutes, 15 secondsthere was a Nordic religion. Maybe some people still practice it. You know, the Vikings and Odin and Thor and the whole pantheon of of gods.
1:37:231 hour, 37 minutes, 23 secondsAnd there was a religion. They actually, you know, had had a religion out of it.
1:37:271 hour, 37 minutes, 27 secondsOne day guy named Stanley decided to make a comic book out of the religion because it's a business and him and so
1:37:341 hour, 37 minutes, 34 secondshim and Jack Kirby they make this whole story and people are reading this comic book and now nowadays they're movies.
1:37:421 hour, 37 minutes, 42 secondsImagine Stanley saying this really is the Nordic religion. Imagine somebody going to a Nordic uh practitioner of
1:37:511 hour, 37 minutes, 51 secondsthat religion and saying, "How do you explain what Stan Lee said Thor did in this comic book?" Well, that's not my religion. What do you mean? You you
1:37:591 hour, 37 minutes, 59 secondsthat's Thor. No, that's the thunder god and this is Odin and these are your guys. No, that's a comic book version of our religion. Zionism and what the
1:38:071 hour, 38 minutes, 7 secondsZionists say they do because they're Jewish. And even Ben Gvere is half comic book, half half uh Torah. It's a comic
1:38:141 hour, 38 minutes, 14 secondsbook version of the religion. And the first thing they did was jetted in the Talmud. They don't they they they don't even learn it. They can't even read it if they tried. Now what the Zionists do,
1:38:251 hour, 38 minutes, 25 secondsso I I must say this before we run out of time that the Zionists when they created Zionism, they were not looking I
1:38:331 hour, 38 minutes, 33 secondshave over here in front of me a book written by a professor Noah Efron. Uh he's actually he's American but he is a
1:38:411 hour, 38 minutes, 41 secondswhat is he? No Efron history and philosophy at Barilan University near Tel Aviv. Formerly a fellow at MIT and
1:38:491 hour, 38 minutes, 49 secondsHarvard, contributing writer for Boston Book Review. He has he also has a podcast by the way called I think it's called the chosen podcast or something
1:38:571 hour, 38 minutes, 57 secondslike that. So he quotes an Anita Shapiro Shapiro with an a at the end but it's the same name as ours. No relation to
1:39:041 hour, 39 minutes, 4 secondsme. Such images were useful to Zionists from the beginning by mean images of
1:39:111 hour, 39 minutes, 11 secondskharedim by providing a model of what not to be. What was the anti against which the Jewish national movement sharpened its identity? Shapiro asked.
1:39:201 hour, 39 minutes, 20 secondsWho was the other? Who provided a negative example, the object of attack and hostility? Against whom did the Zionist movement educate? Against whom
1:39:281 hour, 39 minutes, 28 secondsdid it preach? In whom did it see its polar opposite? The other against whom the new national identity was formed was
1:39:361 hour, 39 minutes, 36 secondscalled was what what's called the diaspora Jew, the gulus Jew and he
1:39:441 hour, 39 minutes, 44 secondswithout quoting Jabatinsky kind of reproduces J. The Haredi is pasty and shallow but the sabra that's was a
1:39:521 hour, 39 minutes, 52 secondsnickname for what the Israelis called themselves back in the olden days. It's some type of cactus plant that's sweet on the inside but tough on the outside.
1:40:001 hour, 40 minutesBut the sabra is tanned. The heredi spends his days amongst dusty old books while the sabra works the fields. The
1:40:071 hour, 40 minutes, 7 secondsheredi is scrawny. And the sabra is what Max Nordau called a muscle jew. The heredi weasles out of the army. And the
1:40:141 hour, 40 minutes, 14 secondssabar and the sabra leads troops to the battlefield with the cry after me. The heredi takes and takes while the sabar
1:40:221 hour, 40 minutes, 22 secondsproduc while the sabra produces. The heredi manipulates while the sabra is earnestly direct. The Haredi is a hunched, hooknose, dark and deformed,
1:40:301 hour, 40 minutes, 30 secondsbut the Sabra is blonde, blue-eyed, and robust. And he brings over here that there was a big Haredi rabbi who
1:40:381 hour, 40 minutes, 38 secondscriticized the Zionists on national TV in 1990 because they only know brute strength. And the Zionists answered in protests,
1:40:471 hour, 40 minutes, 47 secondsin articles, in newspapers, yes, that the best thing about us is that we are not you, that we are not hared.
1:40:551 hour, 40 minutes, 55 secondsWe are the opposite. and they are the opposite of us. People ask me sometimes if I'm ashamed to be Jewish. People tell me they're ashamed of their Jewishness
1:41:031 hour, 41 minutes, 3 secondsbecause of Israel. I say the truth of the matter is I'm I'm not proud of them.
1:41:091 hour, 41 minutes, 9 secondsBut you have to understand my perspective. If they themselves said that they are the opposite of me and
1:41:161 hour, 41 minutes, 16 secondseverything I am, they will do and act and be the opposite, I should be proud of Jewishness when I see what Zionism
1:41:241 hour, 41 minutes, 24 secondsis. Now this idea of the gullis Jew when we talk about when we talk about being derogatory it's not but the word
1:41:331 hour, 41 minutes, 33 secondsJew was derogatory to the Zionists in the book 1967 by Tom Sev he explains
1:41:401 hour, 41 minutes, 40 secondsthat um the generals in 1967 they wanted to go to war and attack Egypt. The
1:41:471 hour, 41 minutes, 47 secondspoliticians who are 30 years older than them he said did not want to. And the fight was whether not whether they
1:41:561 hour, 41 minutes, 56 secondsneeded to do it. Matio Pelle Miko's father had a he was a general. He had an interview in Time magazine. He said
1:42:031 hour, 42 minutes, 3 secondsthere was never a question of danger or self-defense. They they knew Egypt wasn't going to attack. It was suicide.
1:42:101 hour, 42 minutes, 10 secondsThe Arabs were not ready for war.
1:42:131 hour, 42 minutes, 13 secondsRather, instead you you see in this book, it's in very granular detail. It was the pride and the the you're weak.
1:42:211 hour, 42 minutes, 21 secondsYou're you're like you. They called them the Jews. The generals that wanted to go to war had a derogatory nickname for the
1:42:281 hour, 42 minutes, 28 secondspoliticians that said we don't need to go to war. The Jews, they called them the Jews.
1:42:341 hour, 42 minutes, 34 secondsFast forward to more nowadays, uh Benjamin Netanyahu after in the Obama administration when the UN declared the settlements illegal with one abstension,
1:42:441 hour, 42 minutes, 44 secondsthe USA,
1:42:461 hour, 42 minutes, 46 secondshe said, um enough with this exile mentality. again exile mentality. He said Jews don't turn the other cheek.
1:42:541 hour, 42 minutes, 54 secondsNations don't respect obsequious people.
1:42:571 hour, 42 minutes, 57 secondsWe have to be strong. We have to do what we do. Um this goalless mentality and
1:43:031 hour, 43 minutes, 3 secondsjust before Passover Anat Wolf um a Israeli politic you know she is Israeli
1:43:101 hour, 43 minutes, 10 secondspolitician uh made a Passover toast. I'm reading it now from online right before
1:43:171 hour, 43 minutes, 17 secondsPassover. an Oz party that's the name of O really that's the name of her party led by Anad Wolf a Passover toast from
1:43:261 hour, 43 minutes, 26 secondsslavery to freedom from exile to sovereignty and on a video she had said exile mentality to sovereignty mentality
1:43:351 hour, 43 minutes, 35 secondsthey live they are haunted by exile Jews and they want to be tough men the
1:43:421 hour, 43 minutes, 42 secondsopposite of exile Jews the Jabatinsky's youth group it was were called beta car um which is named after Bris Trumpador.
1:43:521 hour, 43 minutes, 52 secondsTrumpador was the Russian uh man who a soldier who fell in a battle of Telkai.
1:43:591 hour, 43 minutes, 59 secondsLegend, Zionist legend has it his blood went into the ground and outgrew red poppies which you understand the symbolism behind that. That's uh the
1:44:091 hour, 44 minutes, 9 secondsperson the human being fertilizing the ground. That's a and giving birth to these red poppies from his blood. This is the blood and soil type Zionism.
1:44:181 hour, 44 minutes, 18 secondsThat's is just the opposite of the spiritual type um Judaism.
1:44:251 hour, 44 minutes, 25 secondsJudaism. Yeah, that was that was amazing. I we will have to drive it towards the end here soon. I could go all day. Um I will say the I want to I
1:44:341 hour, 44 minutes, 34 secondswant to ask or present something to you now because you know this all strikes me as exactly what I've always wanted to
1:44:421 hour, 44 minutes, 42 secondshear since I was a kid. I think I told you I was like, "Let the Jews just be a religion." And yeah, yeah, I don't, you know, you I'm not interested in it, so I'm not a Jew. No, no big deal, but just let let me go and let the Jews be Jews.
1:44:531 hour, 44 minutes, 53 secondsAnd the the best argument, it's a terrible one, I guess. But was this,
1:44:581 hour, 44 minutes, 58 secondswell, you know, I want to sort of steal man that the anti-semites would kill me as much as they would kill you if I'm in Germany right now. And if
1:45:061 hour, 45 minutes, 6 secondsthat, let me just let me just finish the thought experiment because I'm on I'm on your side. So like their their thought that like, hey, if hits the fan,
1:45:141 hour, 45 minutes, 14 secondsthey're gonna come for me because of my last name just as much as you for your last name. Even though we look very different on the street and maybe they wouldn't be able to tell, they're going
1:45:211 hour, 45 minutes, 21 secondsto come for me anyway. And if they say that, that's that's a real phenomenon.
1:45:261 hour, 45 minutes, 26 secondsLet me just steal man it even though I don't agree with it.
1:45:291 hour, 45 minutes, 29 secondsThey would say, "Oh, you this guy Yakov Shapiro would have, you know, meekly gone to the gas chamber rather than denounce his Judaism or fight because
1:45:361 hour, 45 minutes, 36 secondshis his religion and his silly God tells him to do so." And look, we all would have been exterminated. So I had to become this warrior and mutilate myself
1:45:441 hour, 45 minutes, 44 secondsand become this fierce like killer of Palestinians and everything else in order to save this guy Yakov. Even though I kind of hate him for being this
1:45:511 hour, 45 minutes, 51 secondsway. This is the situation I feel like we're in with Israel with that people don't quite understand.
1:45:571 hour, 45 minutes, 57 secondsUm yeah, and that I just want to underline that that is in is insane. I want to ask you first of all, would would you go willingly? Would you be
1:46:061 hour, 46 minutes, 6 secondsmeek and be killed rather than mutilate yourself even if that was the cost? I suppose the answer is yes because you will go to the afterlife and you will meet God. And I'm not denigrating that.
1:46:161 hour, 46 minutes, 16 secondsI'm just putting that on the table for these kind of crazy Zionists who think that they're what you mean utilize doing you a favor.
1:46:221 hour, 46 minutes, 22 secondsI mean morally morally if you if you were so I mean okay first of all the idea
1:46:291 hour, 46 minutes, 29 secondsthat Hitler gets to decide what a Jew is is one of the most anti-semitic things I could think of in theory that Hitler gets to decide what a Jew
1:46:381 hour, 46 minutes, 38 secondssecondly it's not true that anti-semites always only pers persecuted Jews whe they were religious or not there were uh persecutions that the Jews had forced
1:46:461 hour, 46 minutes, 46 secondsconversions and things like that that if you gave up your religion they would leave you alone there for others like that too.
1:46:531 hour, 46 minutes, 53 secondsAnd and aside from all of this, I mean,
1:46:561 hour, 46 minutes, 56 secondsplus Hitler persecuted killed Jews who had paternal lineage as well, even though in Judaism they're not even considered Jews, at least not in
1:47:051 hour, 47 minutes, 5 secondsOrthodox Judaism. So I have to change my So because you have a monster, a lunatic like Hitler that decides to kill Jews.
1:47:131 hour, 47 minutes, 13 secondsAside from which it it No, I don't even see the logic. First of all,
1:47:191 hour, 47 minutes, 19 secondshow is Israel gonna Okay, I I I mean, how is Israel gonna protect me from a holocaust? Right now,
1:47:291 hour, 47 minutes, 29 secondsit seems that if there is another Holocaust, the odds are it'll be because of anti-semitism generated primarily because of Israel, right? So, Israel is putting me more in danger. Secondly,
1:47:401 hour, 47 minutes, 40 secondseven if Israel wants that, why do they have to say they're the country of all the Jews? Why do they have to say they represent the Jews? Let them Why do they
1:47:481 hour, 47 minutes, 48 secondshave to change Jewish identity? If Israel was just a safe place for Jews,
1:47:531 hour, 47 minutes, 53 secondswe could start with that question. It would be a bad question. But bes But Israel is a lot more than that. It's a Jewish identity. It's a claiming to
1:48:011 hour, 48 minutes, 1 secondspeak for the Jews, to represent the Jews that has nothing to do with with with a Hitler. Third, I just want to ask you the math. Let's say you're a Zionist
1:48:101 hour, 48 minutes, 10 secondsand you really believe that. And even if you say morally, it's all okay. Um by the way they could have taken Uganda etc
1:48:171 hour, 48 minutes, 17 secondswhich was a lot less occupied then none of this none of this explains Israel but even the argument itself let's just do
1:48:251 hour, 48 minutes, 25 secondsthe math okay let's say that after 10020 years there is no more there is no not another holocaust there is not another
1:48:331 hour, 48 minutes, 33 secondsHitler I mean could you give me another example throughout history of a man like Hitler that said I'm taking an army and going all over the world and killing all
1:48:411 hour, 48 minutes, 41 secondsthe Jews all over no there Pgram's localized stuff and maybe the biblical haymon and it's not for now but it's open-ended whether he
1:48:491 hour, 48 minutes, 49 secondswould have done that. I don't know. But aside from that, you cannot name me another person in history that said
1:48:571 hour, 48 minutes, 57 secondsactually I'm taking an army and I'm going all around Europe and then to the Middle East and everywhere and killing all the Jews. Hitler was a monster.
1:49:051 hour, 49 minutes, 5 secondsNazis are monsters. No question about it. But let's do the math, okay? in order for let's forget about
1:49:121 hour, 49 minutes, 12 secondsPalestinians for now and please nobody in the comments writes oh see he said forget about Palestinians doesn't care about Palestinians that's not what I'm saying I'm saying something else now
1:49:201 hour, 49 minutes, 20 secondsfrom a purely Zionist perspective from the perspective of the question that you just asked me in order to maintain Israel it costs
1:49:291 hour, 49 minutes, 29 secondslives Israeli lives more people were killed in Israel because they're Jews than everywhere else in the world put
1:49:351 hour, 49 minutes, 35 secondstogether since Israel was created okay um and there are so much anti-semitism that happens outside of Israel because
1:49:431 hour, 49 minutes, 43 secondsof Israel. That's statistics. Whenever Israel does something that people don't like, Jews get attacked and vice versa.
1:49:491 hour, 49 minutes, 49 secondsThese are statistics. So now here's a question.
1:49:541 hour, 49 minutes, 54 secondsHow many Jews, again, this is from your question's perspective. How many Jews have to die? How much anti-semitism has
1:50:021 hour, 50 minutes, 2 secondsto run around, has to be generated for this to pay the premium for this insurance policy before it gets too
1:50:101 hour, 50 minutes, 10 secondsexpensive in case there's another Hitler and in case he's going to persecute Yakov Shapiro too and in case we can
1:50:181 hour, 50 minutes, 18 secondsescape to Israel and in case Israel will let us in. Maybe it won't be in their interest and in let's at what point does this premium become too too expensive?
1:50:281 hour, 50 minutes, 28 seconds20,000 Jews killed, 30, 40, 100,000. If in 200 years there is no Holocaust,
1:50:351 hour, 50 minutes, 35 secondsright? Was it worth it? If in a thousand years there's no Holocaust and you look back and there's no end in sight to
1:50:421 hour, 50 minutes, 42 secondsIsrael's wars, right? Tell me, was it worth it? All the people killed, every insurance policy has a premium to pay and Israel's has a premium to pay even from a Zionist perspective in blood.
1:50:531 hour, 50 minutes, 53 secondsYeah.
1:50:531 hour, 50 minutes, 53 secondsNever mind Palest in Zionist blood. And secondly, does this make any sense? Does it make any sense? Okay, the blacks are
1:51:001 hour, 51 minutesdiscriminated against, right? So, let them become like Zionists. The uh women are discriminated against, right? Let
1:51:091 hour, 51 minutes, 9 secondslet them There's misogyny. Let the women become Zionists. Could you imagine how crazy this world would be if that would be an answer? Why only the Jews? It's
1:51:181 hour, 51 minutes, 18 secondsnot because this argument about Hitler is going to kill, therefore we should. That's not what justifies Israel.
1:51:231 hour, 51 minutes, 23 secondsThat's a silly argument. They believe they believe in science.
1:51:271 hour, 51 minutes, 27 secondsNo, no, no. Totally. And you know, I'm I'm I'm on your side here. I guess I was also asking a more sort of spiritual individual question there of um not just
1:51:361 hour, 51 minutes, 36 secondsthis yes crazy math of an insurance policy, which you and I both agree is is ridiculous and puts everyone in peril,
1:51:421 hour, 51 minutes, 42 secondsnot just Jews, but the whole world. This insane Zionism. Uh but someone like Israel Dahan as an example from history who was a I don't know his his sect or
1:51:521 hour, 51 minutes, 52 secondswhatever but he was a Jew who was an Orthodox Jew who was early 1900s who was in Jerusalem and had seen maybe the
1:52:001 hour, 52 minuteswriting on the wall of even the the terrible fate of of Jews in Europe and went to Jerusalem not because he was a Zionist but because he was interested in
1:52:081 hour, 52 minutes, 8 secondsin praying and like you getting into his Judaism and he saw the Zionist threat and he saw the writing on the wall there of how horrible it would be was on his way back to England to tell the British,
1:52:191 hour, 52 minutes, 19 secondsyou know, you know, Balffor and whoever that, hey, this is a terrible idea.
1:52:231 hour, 52 minutes, 23 secondsYou're going to put you're going to ruin everything and you're going to kill us all. And instead, the Zionists were the ones who shot him and killed him on the street, which kind of proves the point
1:52:311 hour, 52 minutes, 31 secondsto shut him up and and unplug that project. U but but my question to you is this one. This is a different one. If you if you want to do my thought
1:52:381 hour, 52 minutes, 38 secondsexperiment, if you had a time machine and you actually knew for certain that keeping your laws and keeping your Judaism actually there would be another
1:52:471 hour, 52 minutes, 47 secondsHitler or whatever and he would kill you, would you abandon your Judaism or would you be like no like exactly right?
1:52:531 hour, 52 minutes, 53 secondsAnd and I think that's right. That's what I meant by the mutilate part of like what the Zionists have done have changed
1:53:011 hour, 53 minutes, 1 secondeverything about themselves into monsters as it were in order to uh you know defend defend you what they think they're doing where they they hate you.
1:53:111 hour, 53 minutes, 11 secondsIf that makes sense.
1:53:121 hour, 53 minutes, 12 secondsThey they don't think they they're using you. They're using you. They use their I'm their human shield.
1:53:181 hour, 53 minutes, 18 secondsYes. Exactly. Um, if you want to answer your question, not only from my perspective, but the Kedim as you know
1:53:251 hour, 53 minutes, 25 secondsin Israel refused to join the Israeli army. Perfect.
1:53:291 hour, 53 minutes, 29 secondsThere are but listen to this. There are many pictures of protests they had with signs in English because they want the
1:53:371 hour, 53 minutes, 37 secondsworld to understand. uh probably the most or the actually the second most popular sign what by that I mean most uh
1:53:461 hour, 53 minutes, 46 secondspublicized in the media was a sign that these kared were carrying that said we'd rather die as Jews than live as Zionists
1:53:551 hour, 53 minutes, 55 secondsright we'd rather die as Jews than live as Zionists and it's simply be aside from the reason why
1:54:041 hour, 54 minutes, 4 secondsI'm against Zionism we were against Zionism even before there was a conflict with the Palestinians in the 1800s. We were right.
1:54:121 hour, 54 minutes, 12 secondsSee, let's say there would be a two-state solution.
1:54:161 hour, 54 minutes, 16 secondsIt's not going to Let's say and let's say the Palestinians would be happy and let's say the Israelis would be happy.
1:54:211 hour, 54 minutes, 21 secondsLet's say the Palestinians get 90% of the land and the Israelis end up with 10% in the negative desert, but everybody's happy. Do you have any
1:54:301 hour, 54 minutes, 30 secondsproblem with the Zionists now with Israel now? There's peace in everyone's head. Well,
1:54:351 hour, 54 minutes, 35 secondsI do because Israel still has this. They still claim to be the state of the Jews.
1:54:401 hour, 54 minutes, 40 secondsThey still claim to speak for me. They still claim to be my country. They still It's an attack on Jewish identity. All of these theological things are still
1:54:481 hour, 54 minutes, 48 secondstrue. They will still cause anti-semitism because why should I be considered less of an American? Because uh there's something called the Jewish state over there.
1:54:581 hour, 54 minutes, 58 secondsZionism, the the Palestinians, I'm still the other to the Palestinians. the Palestinian, excuse me, to the Zionists,
1:55:041 hour, 55 minutes, 4 secondsthe Palestinians just got caught in the crossfire. They were in the wrong place in the wrong time. Right? Had it had Israel been a land without a people for
1:55:131 hour, 55 minutes, 13 secondsa people without a land, it wasn't. But had it been that, I would still be against Zionism and the Zionists would
1:55:201 hour, 55 minutes, 20 secondsstill want to be the same Baronim, that's what they call themselves, means a Hebrew for like
1:55:271 hour, 55 minutes, 27 secondsthugs. They had a a song. Jabatinsk's youth group had a song. Shir habaronim
1:55:341 hour, 55 minutes, 34 secondsthe thugs song and they they they're like fascists. Yeah.
1:55:401 hour, 55 minutes, 40 secondsYou know the Jabatinsky Zions they were literally fascist influence. They would still be what they would be and they would still be the opposite of a Jew.
1:55:471 hour, 55 minutes, 47 secondsYou know 1904 when Jabbatinsky said that that a Zionist is the opposite of a Jew.
1:55:521 hour, 55 minutes, 52 secondsThey had no idea what was going to be with Palestinians. Yeah.
1:55:551 hour, 55 minutes, 55 secondsNo idea of 67. No idea of of Gaza, no idea what was going to be. Yeah. Well, let's let's leave it there.
1:56:021 hour, 56 minutes, 2 secondsYeah, maybe we should do it around two because it's uh you're you're we didn't start.
1:56:061 hour, 56 minutes, 6 secondsWe didn't even start and we're two hours in. But 1967 is a huge turning point that also we could have talked about. I was at my uh nephew's barit. If you watched the one that I with Peter Bard,
1:56:161 hour, 56 minutes, 16 secondsI mentioned this story and the reform prayer book that they use. almost every um sort of uh footer at the bottom was a
1:56:241 hour, 56 minutes, 24 seconds1967 revision that was like super Zionist where Israel, this word that famously has these two dual dual meanings, became very much a Zionist kind of project and it was post 1967.
1:56:351 hour, 56 minutes, 35 secondsBut I won't even let you respond because you'll answer for 20 minutes and it'll be too good and I got to let you go. Um,
1:56:401 hour, 56 minutes, 40 secondslet's let's do another round because this is fun and maybe I love the theological stuff and again like I I said my my my 14-year-old self is very
1:56:471 hour, 56 minutes, 47 secondshappy right now because this is the kind of uh philosophical theological argumentation that was completely absent
1:56:541 hour, 56 minutes, 54 secondsand lacking at least in the suburban American Judaism that you've probably seen and very familiar with. Um that was was not at all fulfilling or
1:57:031 hour, 57 minutes, 3 secondsintellectually engaging for someone interested in philosophy like myself.
1:57:071 hour, 57 minutes, 7 secondsAnd so I wasn't I was just bored with it rather than even disgusted with it. I was disgusted with Israel and the and the actions of Israel, but the theological stuff and the moral
1:57:161 hour, 57 minutes, 16 secondsphilosophy stuff, I could have argued all day with my rabbis, but they were too busy just trying to, you know,
1:57:211 hour, 57 minutes, 21 secondsshuffle kids through a a factory of bar mitzvah and learning Hebrew without learning what it means and sending them to Israel for the bar mitzvah. And on it goes as a Zionist kind of conveyor belt.
1:57:311 hour, 57 minutes, 31 secondsAnd all he ever wanted was everything you said on this is for Judaism to be a religion like any other that has its followers and has its tenants and you
1:57:401 hour, 57 minutes, 40 secondscould leave you could convert to it and that's it. And they just it's been a lifelong frustration that they wouldn't let me do it. And I think you're right.
1:57:481 hour, 57 minutes, 48 secondsLet's not let Hitler define that for for me. And you know right I get to go. Yeah.
1:57:541 hour, 57 minutes, 54 secondsRight. I still say that you are obligated to fulfill the religion. you know in that sense you're Jewish and you can't really but you don't believe right
1:58:021 hour, 58 minutes, 2 secondsit's a it's a belief you either believe it or you don't think yeah I have moral philosophical uh I have a book coming out in September that's a moral philosophy book that
1:58:101 hour, 58 minutes, 10 secondsactually assues the word obligation and substitutes it for opportunity which maybe would be a theological and philosophical challenge for us to debate
1:58:181 hour, 58 minutes, 18 secondsit's all fine I mean it's like saying there's an obligation well God created the concept of should or ought
1:58:251 hour, 58 minutes, 25 secondsit's a creation No, no less than heaven and earth. It's a creation. There's some things that are inherently should. If you want, we could speak uh about theology anytime you like.
1:58:351 hour, 58 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. No, that's I would love to. I I uh I pro I follow the work of Eric from the closest who famously left Judaism,
1:58:421 hour, 58 minutes, 42 secondsalthough he had a tomic interpretation of things when he was young. Uh so my humanism is probably just as strong as your religiosity. And and maybe we could
1:58:511 hour, 58 minutes, 51 secondswe could come come to blows at it sometime. But it's really fun and I wish this is there was more of this stuff in the world and Zionism would leave us all alone, but it doesn't seem like that's
1:58:581 hour, 58 minutes, 58 secondshappening anytime soon. So, let's uh let's let's bid farewell. Uh maybe we should get the third Shapiro on this call next time, the Ben who we didn't
1:59:061 hour, 59 minutes, 6 secondseven mention and have a have a Shapiro family reunion and see how that and that goes. I I don't have a connection to Ben and I have no interest in talking to him
1:59:141 hour, 59 minutes, 14 secondsactually. So, uh I don't know where he fits in our in our family tree, but this was really really fun. Um, and uh, you know, I appreciate the work you're doing
1:59:221 hour, 59 minutes, 22 secondsout there and all the stuff you're sending me is great. So, and I learn a ton from you every time I watch you.
1:59:281 hour, 59 minutes, 28 secondsThank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
BECOME A MEMBER - MONTHLY MEMBERS ONLY LIVESTREAM / @jayshapirodilemmapodcast
For more from Jay visit whatjaythinks.com
Explore the podcast
74 episodes
The Dilemma Podcast
Jay Shapiro - Dilemma Podcast
Podcasts
Transcript
Follow along using the transcript.
Show transcript
Jay Shapiro - Dilemma Podcast
20.6K subscribers
Videos
About
===
No comments:
Post a Comment