이스라엘, 팔레스타인, 이란, 터키, 인도, 월남, 쿠바: Tim Wise 유대인의 정체성과 귀환법에 관한 비판

Just one more thing that has never made sense about this argument…

0:48 / 2:47

Tony Staples

If we are speaking in terms of ancestry, we are speaking of Hebrews, not Jews. If Hebrews have an ancestral right to occupy the land that is currently called Israel, then Palestinians have exactly the same right for the same reason.

Dilma Arends Geerman

My ancestral grandfather was an Ashkenazi Jew. Perhaps ALL of us should convert to Judaism, claim our right of return and give the land back to Palestinians.. Wouldn’t that be amazing?

Richard Freudenberger

When I was in Israel I was surprised at how many non-Semites were placing themselves under the Jewish and Israeli umbrella. New Yorkers, Russians, other slavic eastern Europeans. I also felt that a sense of establishing second homes was at work there, in some instances. Just my observation.

Richard Witty

Its home. If there was a confident agreement that guaranteed jews safety there, then single state proposals might have merit.

You should be aware though that many Palestinians are recently immigrants to the area in similar time frames as jews.

Eric Nissani

Richard Witty there was some Muslim migration to the area during British rule, especially from egypt. And of course with Islam 1400 years ago.

However the statistics on Jewish diaspora returning to Palestinians around 98% whereas the Palestinians or more than 50% indigenous going back to the beginning of Islam and even a thousand years before that. Especially if you take into account that many Jews and Samaritan Jews converted to Christianity

Michael G. Lehmann

Richard Witty So they have just as legitimate claim to the area?

Sharon Waterman

Richard Witty who were the palastinians before 1948.

Henry Shamberger

Abraham's birthplace is traditionally identified as Ur of the Chaldeans (Ur Kasdim), which is believed to be located in present-day Iraq. While the distance between Ur and modern-day Israel is about 1200 miles, the phrase "1200 Mi away from Israel" is inaccurate. Ur is in the East, not the West, so the distance to Israel is across the land.

Mike Lee

The question is an exercise in intellectual theoreticals - no more.

Jeanne Dowd Grimm

Do the indigenous people of the US (Canada, Australia, Finland) have the right of return? Can I convert to become a Navaho and get my land back on the Great Plains? I’m confused. What about tribes whose ancestral lands overlapped?

Steve Ross

Any Sovereign Country can determine who can become a citizen. There are plenty of countries that exclude citizenship for what ever reason. Jews have been living in the Levant for 3000 years. Most of the Arabs come from the surrounding areas not Israel(Ancestry) Every male Jews Mitochondrial DNA can be traced to Judea and Samaria.

Manny Rodriguez

This guy makes more sense than Joe Rogan

Heiko Stang

But, according to this argument, Israel is not an ethnostate. So now you have to invest yet another term, "religious ethnostate"...

Aron Cutler

Personally, I do believe that there is Jewish indigenous on that land, but I wouldn’t have supported displacing Palestinians in 1948, or today. Now that Israel does exist, the way I see it is that there are two indigenous peoples on that land with equal claims, regardless of how the repatriation of Jews occurred 80 years ago.

John Yarbrough

Living in the US, I've akways had doubts about the idea that someone whose ancestors lived where I live have a right to return that out weighs my current occupancy. Like someone's tradition and possibly some archeological remains in my neighborhood gives them legitimate claim to "return", although neither they nor their immediate ancestors ever lived here, and force me out. Most people would think it absurd if I claimed I have a right to go to the UK and force someone off land because I believe it's associated with a 17th century ancestor.

Jeffry House

When the UN passed the Resolution which led to a partition of the British Mandate and the offer of both a Palestinian and an Arab/Palestinian state, the Resolution was based on a report prepared by a number of members of the UN, including Canada, Iran, India, and others.

The members of the Committee travelled to the Levant, and eventually prepared a report that said that both Jews and Palestinians had claims on the Levant that would justify statehood being offered to each group.

Their Report said that Jewish claims to indigeneity could not be separated from a centuries long religious tradition which referenced Jerusalem as the homeland from which they had been driven out.

It was that totality, along with a long term minority presence that led the Committee to recommend a Jewish state, along with a recommendation for a Palestinian Arab state based on more recent, but still longstanding, occupation.

Both communities deserved a state.

That seems about right to me.

Jesse Enriquez

The hebrew tribes are from Iraq. In their book they describe how after being slaves of the Egyptians they wandered around for years. They aren't from Palestine, never. And their imaginary friend cant give someone else's land to them.

James Garcia

It would be fair to take dna testing

Kris Karr

Omg. Wow. Truly a great observation. Thank you for this. It is important people hear that.

Ivan Castillo

Factually, Factual Facts and Truthfully,Truthful Truths! 💯PERCENT💯

Abed Onwona

Before 1948, the land of Palestine was filled with very dark skinned people. Religious affiliation isn't indigenousity

Eric Nissani

Agreed with 90% of this.

People that are more of the Zionist mindset might say that Jewish people are united in their suffering, even the converts. Of course in this day and age no one can complain that the Palestinians haven't suffered, especially in Gaza they've suffered tremendously.

Ivan M Dent

Interesting thought!!💪🏿💪🏿

Lee Rickel

First, it’s all biblical. It’s the land that was promised to the descendants of Abraham the first Jew

And that land was much larger than the land, which is currently called Israel

Second, Who is the Palestinian?

Won the word Palestine wasn’t spoken until 135 A.D.

And it referred to Philistine‘s

Philistines are not from what is known as Palestine

They were called coastal people, and they were from Crete

And Philistine‘s and Palestine‘s were not Muslim

Muslims didn’t exist until 600 A.D.

They were a mix of people not specifically one race

Which brings up point number three

Even Abraham was not a Jew initially

He was along with everybody else part of the same genealogy

In the Middle East, meaning I ran Iraq Saudi Arabia Kuwait Egypt were all populated by the same people that became different cultures

So the point being The practically everyone in the Middle East is related income from the same genealogy, and the one thing that truly separates them all is their religious beliefs, not their race

Next the vast majority of the Middle East up until 600 AD was made up of Christians and Jews no such thing as a Muslim back then

The Muslim faith from that time on started and grew and continues to grow and now dominates the Middle East

Muslim is not a race. It’s a religion.

And whether it’s America with Native American Indians

Or Africa with native Africans

I believe most people would say that if you were African, you should be able to go back to your country. If you’re Native American, you should have right to land in your country.

Which Indians do have though I don’t think it’s enough for them and should be better

But in this case, what we are saying, is that because you were dispersed not by your choice, but by the Romans, who basically destroyed the Jewish faith and scattered the Jewish people back in 70 A.D.

You don’t have the right to go back and establish your home again

And specifically because of their Jewish faith not their race

The Muslims don’t want them there

Why because it is in the Quran and it is what the Muslims are fighting for and that is a one world religion, and it just so happens that this little tiny piece of land set aside for the Jewish people which is less than 2% of the landmass in the Middle East Prevents the Muslim faith from controlling the whole Middle East

Disappointed you were Jewish and you don’t understand all this

Disappointed that people out there are so against the Jewish people having a tiny little patch of land in the Middle East

Yet we will sit here in America and say this land is in hours it belongs to the Mexicans. It belongs to the French. It belongs to the British. It belongs to the Native Americans.

But you won’t say the same for the Jewish people

Pumkin Pie

🤔That summation was clearly explained.

Emily Stern Düwel

You resort to apocryphal fallacy or the exception negating if not the rule then that which is vastly commonplace. The Jewish nation is vested in both faith and people as cultural legacy. Not in blut und boden—which you inexpertly argue for—except perhaps for the matrilinity favored by the Orthodox, who do not speak for the whole. My point is world wide there is no one definition of “nation” yet you try and make it so. By way of example, one can marry into the Navajo nation but not the Zuni. No matter, the Palestinians can only claim thousands of years of indigeneity if they are the same people as the Jews. And perhaps that truth is closer to the reality—those who left in order to hold onto their faith, those who stayed. The DNA does not show otherwise (although it is hard to prove a positive with a negative). How about this? It is among our most repeated prayers since the diaspora: Next year in Jerusalem. Such is the state of mind of a people violently displaced from their homeland, with a long memory—the length of which is evidence of is a kind of indigeneity, although I am unsure why I bother sharing this. Then again the two ancient Jewish kingdoms laid the foundation for the emergence of two of the world’s four universal religions. It is called the Holy Land because of its roots are in Judaism. And yes you can argue Judaism’s roots trace back perhaps to Egypt, to Sumer—and why should they not? We are a Middle Eastern people after all. (Those who have any doubts should listen to the traditional liturgical music, never mind that 50% of Israeli Jews are Sephardim.) Again for comparison, Navajo and Apache descend from a common root but are two separate nations. Lastly, let us ponder the fact that for 2,000 years European have devoted themselves time and time again to trying to exterminate the Jews in their midsts. Since 300 it is an atavistic hatred as we are falsely blamed for killing their God. But really who is to blame for the tragedy that is Israel and Palestine? The only path forward is a just, shared, equitable and compassionate peace. Mutual annihilation is the other option, but one that will only benefit the nihilist crusaders reborn.

Edited

Ramachandran Padma

To the best of my knowledge, I know indigenous Jews were around the area of middle East and were driven out with the coming of Islam and as well as the Zoroastrians from originally named Persia, now Iran, because some clans of Jews and Zoroastrians found refugee in 🇮🇳 India. After WWii, European Jews (White blue eyed Jews) were given the place Palestines through some wheeling and dealing of Britain and other European powers. So the present Jews in Israel are really not ethnically the original Jews, but mostly of European origin.

Daniel Winner

Israel became a nation legally by the League of Nations.

Marti Murphy

We need to re litigate the Haavara Agreement

Omar Robleh

You said it right

Altafur Rahman

That's what we are saying for so long.

Rosemary Haden

Thank you. The world needs more people like you. 🌹❤️

Artin Mahboubi

hes absolutely right

Independent Catholic News (ICN)

God bless you !

Erika Eisenberg

False framing.

Jews are indigenous to Judea- period - that’s a fact

It’s not what gives us the right to the land.

We’ve lived there forever. We agreed to share it as long as some of it was ours. We fought for it. We built it. We invited others to join, some did, others started a war and lost.

Nobody gave it to us. We built a nation as many nations do.

Israel is the world’s greatest decolonization project by an indigenous people ever. Not because we are entitled to it, but because Jews can’t be disconnected from our birthplace and we made it ours again.

Am Yisrael Chai

Edited

Stanley Kendrick

?....

Bert Adams

Kent Sezen

Torben Klaaby

🎯🎯🎯

Jase d'Annemarc

Don’t the people who identify (or are identified) as Palestinians, have significant percentages of paleo-Judaic ancestry but were converted through centuries by waves of empires; Crusaders and Jihadists? Closer to the pressure-cooker factory of Abrahamic improv, they faced a a mire virulent, violent pressure than those that survived, and still survive, in a Europe steeped in “Ecclesia et Synagoga”. Europe’s Jews that survived wave after wave of Christian madness may also have “benefited” among strains of Christian laypersons that are mystified by the Jews, in their interpretation of their newly adopted, imported god(s), much like how modern American evangelicals fetishize Israel while spouting off antisemitic tropes, often in the same breath.

Sharon K Preston

Why weren't the Jews living there prior to WW2?

João Marcos Barbosa

Easy, its called delusion

Deb Krunek

66% of that population has a allergy to olive blooms.

That in itself is hard FACT-

I am of the opinion u can’t seriously expect to belonging to the region and use politics to avoid that reality.

Some of those trees are thousands of years old, they go back multi generations-

Don’t know about u but the scam u tell yourself to ignore just might be

Indoctrination by a delusion.

The Semitic Palestinian People aren’t foreign to it.

Think hard what that fact

eludes to.

Melissa Lewis Toth

Before Israel, there was a British mandate, not a Palestinian state

2. Before the British Mandate, there was the Ottoman Empire, not a Palestinian state.

3. Before the Ottoman

Empire, there was the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, not a Palestinian state.

4. Before the Islamic state of the Mamluks of Egypt, there was the Ayubid Arab-Kurdish Empire, not a Palestinian state.

5. Before the Ayubid Empire, there was the Frankish and Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem, not a Palestinian state.

6. Before the Kingdom of Jerusalem, there was the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, not a Palestinian state.

7. Before the Umayyad and Fatimid empires, there was the Byzantine empire, not a Palestinian state.

8. Before the Byzantine Empire, there were the Sassanids, not a Palestinian state.

9. Before the Sassanid Empire, there was the Byzantine Empire, not a Palestinian state.

10. Before the Byzantine Empire, there was the Roman Empire, not a Palestinian state.

11. Before the Roman Empire, there was the Hasmonean state, not a Palestinian state.

12. Before the Hasmonean state, there was the Seleucid, not a Palestinian state.

13. Before the Seleucid empire, there was the empire of Alexander the Great, not a Palestinian state.

14. Before the empire of Alexander the Great, there was the Persian empire, not a Palestinian state.

15. Before the Persian Empire, there was the Babylonian Empire, not a Palestinian state.

16. Before the Babylonian Empire, there were the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, not a Palestinian state.

17. Before the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there was the Kingdom of Israel, not a Palestinian state.

18. Before the kingdom of Israel, there was the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, not a Palestinian state.

19. Before the theocracy of the twelve tribes of Israel, there was an agglomeration of independent Canaanite city-kingdoms, not a Palestinian state.

20. Actually, in this piece of land there has been everything, EXCEPT A PALESTINIAN STATE.

David Rawson

I think you’re missing the point. Jews settled in Palestine in the first half of the 20th century because they were desperate refugees escaping from pogroms, rampant antisemitism and ultimately the Holocaust, and they weren’t allowed to go anywhere else. For example, the United States banned immigration from Eastern Europe in 1924. Even if there was no indigenous connection to the land, the 7.4 million Jews in Israel still have a right to self determination where they live. So do the Palestinians. That’s why the 2 state solution made the most sense before it was buried by Netanyahu’s reprehensible right wing government.

Lester Wagman

This is a pointless discussion. Both Jews and Arabs lived in British Mandate Palestine before 1948. They didn’t get on as both claimed the whole land. So the British partitioned it giving over 70% to the Arabs (including Jordan). The Arabs weren’t satisfied and launched a war…and lost. During that war some Arabs were displaced having been promised the right to return by Jordan. But having lost the war Jordan couldn’t fulfil this. These became the West Bank refugees. They have since refused 9 brokered peace deals. If they agreed to live side by side with Israel there would be peace tomorrow.

Mildred Carpenter

Correct not a person there a true people of God

Kent Wilkens

God promised the land from the river Egypt to the Euphrates, to Abraham, and his descendants.

Which includes Isaac and Ishmael.

Promise kept.

Oh, and the Palestinians, their core population, is on the Isaac side of the fence...

Lori Ellen

Then call out by name the ones doing the deed.

Yael Klein

They haven't been there thousends of year. Two years before 1948.. by definition, by the. UN

Lamont Montonium Wilson

Sadly I see Israel very very differently now.

Mike Kennedy

Sounds like American ideas of "Manifest Destiny".

Adam Malachi

my sentiment exactly! I agree with his opinion!

Ivan Herrera

Thank you.

Bill Breedon

As the majority of the founders of Israel were secular Jews, the religious justification doesn't even apply.

Even Ben Gurion was an agnostic Jew.

Before he was stopped, an Israeli academic was testing DNA among the Jewish population, and estimates that only about forty percent of Israelis have any genetic connections to the Jewish race.

Angela Saunders

Thanks for sharing.

Larry Patterson

Exactly 💯

Joe Dev

I ran into this question from another angle when trying to understand the motivation of Chabad-Lubovich.

They seem to believe that jews have a God-soul that other animals and non-jews don't have. What is achieved through "conversion" is not adding a God-soul to a non-jew, but rather discovering that this non-jew was a two-soulled Jew who got lost from the tribe all along!

Given that this belief seems to underpin the right of return laws of Israel, it looks like it is a true theocratic ethno-religious supremacist state. Lots of parallels to scientology.

Matt Gerstmayr

Cause Bibi said so.

John Felder

The "new" Israel should have been placed in Poland or another part of the defeated axis territories

Marlowe Rafelle

logic flies out the window at the same time as humanity 🙁

"Most relevant" is selected, so some comments may have been filtered out.

이스라엘, 팔레스타인, 이란, 터키, 인도, 월남, 쿠바

Saturday, April 25, 2026

Tim Wise 유대인의 정체성과 귀환법에 관한 비판

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