아브라함 부르그 인터뷰: 이스라엘의 전략 부재와 근본주의의 위기

Former Interim President of Israel Avraham Burg Speaks Out on Netanyahu’s Killing Spree - YouTube

Former Interim President of Israel Avraham Burg Speaks Out on Netanyahu’s Killing Spree

Tucker Carlson

5.54M subscribers

1,353,331 views  Mar 24, 2026  The Tucker Carlson Show

Avraham Burg, former speaker of the Knesset and interim president of Israel, on why Netanyahu can never settle, only kill. 

Avraham (Avrum) Burg is an Israeli author, intellectual, and former Speaker of the Knesset, who has combined a career in public leadership with writing, teaching, and dialogue across cultures, and is known for his insightful reflections on Israeli society, Judaism, democracy, and global politics, with a consistent emphasis on ethics and peace.

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인터뷰 전문

세진님, 요청하신 대로 터커 칼슨과 아브라함 버그의 인터뷰 전문을 한국어로 번역하여 정리해 드립니다. 세진님께서 원하시는 TTS 청취 환경에 맞춰 별표 대신 < >를 사용하였으며, 나를 향하지 않은 본문 텍스트는 <해라> 체를 적용했다.

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터커 칼슨 쇼: 이스라엘 전 대통령 권한대행 아브라함 버그 인터뷰 전문

제1장: 서론

베냐민 네타냐후 정부와 미국 내 그들을 지지하는 이들은 한동안 정부에 대한 모든 비판을 반유대주의로 몰아세웠다. 그들은 이스라엘 정부가 전 세계 모든 유대인을 대변하며, 따라서 정부의 행동이 곧 모든 유대인의 뜻이라고 주장한다. 하지만 이는 논리적으로 맞지 않을 뿐만 아니라 유대인에 대한 일종의 비방이기도 하다. 모든 유대인이 네타냐후에 의해 대변되는 것은 아니며, 이스라엘 내부에서도 이에 동의하지 않는 이들이 많다.

이스라엘은 정보 검열이 심하고 규모가 작은 나라여서 시민들이 정보의 진공 상태에 갇혀 지내는 경우가 많다. 이러한 마법을 깨기 위해 우리는 지식과 신념을 갖춘 반대 의견을 경청해야 한다. 오늘 모신 아브라함 버그는 이스라엘의 저명한 시오니스트 가문 출신으로, 크네세트 의장과 대통령 권한대행을 역임한 이스라엘 정치의 중심 인물이었다. 그는 이번 전쟁 발발 직후, 이 전쟁이 이스라엘의 이익에 부합하지 않는다는 강력한 기고문을 발표한 용기 있는 인물이다.

제2장: 이스라엘의 전략은 무엇인가?

<터커 칼슨>: 오늘 아침 미국 대통령이 이란과의 협상 때문에 민간 기반 시설 타격을 보류하겠다고 발표했다. 그런데 직후에 이스라엘군이 이란의 민간 시설을 타격했다는 보고가 있었다. 이것이 어떤 전략을 시사하는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 이스라엘이 수년간 취해온 전략과 같다. 즉, <전략이 없다는 것>이다. 이스라엘에서는 많은 전술이 모여 사실상의 전략처럼 보일 때가 있지만, 실제로는 아무것도 없다. 방금 전 상황만 봐도 그렇다. 대통령의 발표가 나오자 이스라엘인들은 <유월절 휴가를 갈 수 있게 비행편이 재개되겠다>거나 <네타냐후가 이 모든 움직임의 배후에 있다>는 식의 엇갈린 반응을 보였다. 혼돈 속에서 군대는 그들이 가장 잘하는 일, 즉 <못을 박는 일(타격)>을 할 뿐이다.

칼슨 당신은 네타냐후의 40년 숙원이 <성서적 의미의 위대한 이스라엘>이라고 믿는 것 같지만, 실제로는 그렇게 돌아가지 않는다. 이스라엘과 미국의 차이는 이렇다. 미국인은 목표를 보고 겨냥하고 또 겨냥하는 <과정>을 중시하지만, 이스라엘인은 목표를 보면 일단 쏘고 본다. 나는 이란이라는 <괴물>을 제거하고 싶어 하는 이스라엘인들의 열망을 이해한다. 하지만 그 괴물은 실재하는 위협인 동시에 우리가 스스로 부풀려 만든 것이기도 하다.

제3장: 이스라엘에게 승리란 무엇인가?

<터커 칼슨>: 이스라엘의 관점에서 승리란 어떤 모습인가? 어떻게 승리했다고 판단하는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 좋은 답을 내놓기 어렵다. 서구적 사고방식은 보통 <윈-윈>을 추구하며, 전쟁이 끝나고 대화할 상대를 남겨둔다. 하지만 이스라엘은 심리적으로 <제로섬 게임> 속에 살고 있다. 내가 이기려면 당신은 죽어야 하고, 굴욕을 당해야 하며, 존재가 지워져야 한다. 이러한 철학 때문에 모든 적은 <히틀러>가 되고, 매 10년마다 새로운 아돌프 히틀러가 등장한다. 적이 절대악이기 때문에 유일한 해결책은 <제거>뿐이다. 이스라엘의 야당조차 누가 더 공격적이고 창의적으로 적을 파괴할 수 있는지 경쟁할 뿐, 화해의 정치는 찾아보기 어렵다.

제4장: 이스라엘은 진정으로 평화를 원하는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 어린 시절 나의 랍비는 나를 보고 <삶을수록 더 딱딱해지는 달걀 같은 아이>라고 했다. 이스라엘인들도 지난 수십 년간의 경험을 통해 매우 딱딱하게 굳어버렸다. 우리는 우리에게 내밀어진 손을 믿지 않았고, 먼저 손을 내밀어 본 적도 없다.

1973년 전쟁 당시 나는 최전방 참호에서 겁에 질린 18세 소년병이었다. 그때 라디오에서 이집트 사다트 대통령이 <시나이반도를 되찾기 위해 150만 명을 희생할 준비가 되어 있다>고 말하는 것을 듣고 죽음의 공포를 느꼈다. 그러나 4년 후 그가 예루살렘에 왔을 때, 나는 <전쟁은 이제 그만>을 외치며 그의 행렬을 뒤따랐다. 그것은 평화의 문법으로 제안된 최초의 기회였지만, 우리는 사다트의 도전에 끝내 응하지 못했다. 오슬로 협정도 마찬가지였다. 이스라엘에는 평화를 말할 수 있는 마음의 상태나 어휘가 없다.

객관적으로 이스라엘은 예전보다 강해졌지만, 심리적으로는 더 위협받고 있다고 느낀다. 1948년에는 7개 아랍 국가와 싸웠지만, 지금은 팔레스타인이라는 절반의 문제만 남았다. 그럼에도 불구하고 이스라엘은 전 세계적으로 동정을 받던 나라에서 이제 멸시받는 <국제적 부랑자(Pariah)>가 될 위기에 처했다. 특히 이란의 핵 보유 가능성은 이스라엘에게 전혀 다른 차원의 실존적 위협이다.

제5장: 미국은 이 전쟁에 강요당했는가?

<터커 칼슨>: 이번 이란과의 전쟁은 어떻게 시작되었는가? 트럼프 대통령이 네타냐후의 인도를 따른 것인가?

<아브라함 버그>: 우리는 아직 정보가 부족하다. 하지만 전쟁을 선포하는 이유가 단지 <기회가 왔기 때문>이라면, 그것은 내가 들어본 가장 기회주의적이고 비도덕적인 이유다. 네타냐후를 이해하려면 두 가지 동력을 봐야 한다. 하나는 유대인 특유의 <전 세계가 우리를 적대한다>는 피해의식과 불신이다. 다른 하나는 우리가 <빛의 자녀>이고 저들은 <어둠의 자손>이기에 결코 타협하지 말고 싸워야 한다는 네오콘 식의 보수적 세계관이다.

제6장: 네타냐후는 트럼프를 두려워하는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 네타냐후는 트럼프를 두려워한다. 그가 예측 불가능하기 때문이다. 하지만 동시에 네타냐후는 트럼프를 어떻게 조종해야(Puppeteer) 하는지 잘 아는 매우 유능한 인물이다. 그는 마치 노련한 형처럼 행동하며 자신의 의도를 관철시키기 위해 모든 수단을 동원한다. 네타냐후는 아주 뛰어난 캠페이너다. 그와 방에서 대화하고 나올 때는 소매 속에 당신의 손이 그대로 있는지 확인해야 할 정도다. 그들은 서로를 이용하고 있다.

제7장: 미국이 이 전쟁에서 얻는 것은 무엇인가?

<아브라함 버그>: 트럼프는 역사 속에서 자신의 자리를 찾으려 한다. 뉴욕에서 많은 유대인과 교류해온 그는 이스라엘이 멸종 위기에 처해 있다는 수사에 익숙하다. 네타냐후는 이 점을 이용해 <당신은 유대인을 구한 사람으로 역사에 기록될 것>이라고 설득했을 것이다. 동시에 <당신의 임기 중에 제2의 홀로코스트가 일어나게 해서는 안 된다>는 공포를 심어주었을 것이다.

제8장: 이스라엘인들은 가자지구를 어떻게 보는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 10월 7일 하마스의 만행은 어떤 이유로도 정당화될 수 없는 범죄다. 하지만 그에 대한 대응으로 이스라엘이 가자에서 저지르는 반인도적 범죄 또한 정당화될 수 없다. 두 비극은 서로를 상쇄하지 않는다.

대부분의 이스라엘인은 가자가 어디에 있는지조차 모른다. 물리적으로는 가깝지만 심리적으로는 <어둠의 산 너머>에 있다. 이스라엘 매체는 가자 주민의 개별적인 삶을 보여주지 않는다. 오직 터널, 시멘트, 로켓, 테러리스트만 보여준다. 이스라엘 대통령조차 가자에 무고한 시민은 없다고 말했지만, 이는 소돔과 고모라에도 의인이 있다고 믿었던 아브라함보다 못한 태도다. 가자는 단순한 사각지대가 아니라 이스라엘이 붕괴해 들어간 <도덕적 심연>이다.

오늘날 이스라엘 인구의 절반은 이슬람권에서 온 유대인들이다. 그들은 서구적 유산이나 민주적 전통을 공유하지 않는다. 이스라엘은 유럽과 단절되었고 지역 공동체에도 통합되지 못한 채 고립된 섬이 되었다. 우리는 200년 만에 멸망한 십자군 국가와 닮아 있다.

제9장: 이스라엘인들은 미국을 어떻게 보는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 우리는 미국을 사랑하고 동경하지만, 동시에 미국인이 매우 유치하고 천진하다고 생각한다. 이스라엘에서는 모두가 스스로를 전략가나 외교관이라고 믿기에 미국인에게 훈수를 두려 한다.

우리는 미국의 헌법적 가치나 평등, 교회와 국가의 분리라는 개념을 이해하지 못하거나 위협으로 느낀다. 네타냐후는 미국 유대인들이 자신의 입장을 지지하지 않자 그들을 포기하고 <기독교 시오니스트>들을 정치적 기반으로 삼았다. 이제 이스라엘은 실리콘밸리의 기술과 이익은 취하지만 미국의 가치는 존중하지 않는다.

제10장: 이것은 종교 전쟁인가?

<아브라함 버그>: 공식적으로 정의되지는 않았지만, 이것은 <세계 종교 전쟁>의 두 번째 단계다. 10월 7일이 이스라엘의 유대교 근본주의와 하마스의 이슬람 근본주의가 충돌한 첫 장이었다면, 지금 이란과의 전쟁은 기독교 근본주의까지 결합된 전쟁이다.

서안 지구에서 정착민들이 무고한 팔레스타인인들에게 자행하는 범죄를 군과 경찰이 묵인하고 내각이 지지하는 현실이 부끄럽다. 랍비들은 어디에 있는가? 그들이 침묵하는 이유는 그들 자신이 이 메시아적이고 종말론적인 철학의 내부자이기 때문이다. 여기서 고전 유대교는 무너지고 있다.

제11장: 제3성전 건립 시도

<아브라함 버그>: 대중에게 성전 재건은 큰 관심사가 아니지만, 광신적인 소수에게는 생사가 걸린 문제다. 1967년 이후 템플 마운트에서 이슬람 사원을 제거하려는 시도가 최소 다섯 번 있었다. 이 음모에 가담했던 정착민들은 감옥에 갔다가 곧 풀려나와 장관의 고문이나 신문 편집자 같은 주요 인물이 되었다.

만약 알-아크사 사원이 파괴된다면, 그것은 이스라엘 국가의 존재 명분이 끝나는 날이 될 것이다. 또한 전 세계 이슬람 대중을 자극해 기존의 세계 질서가 알아볼 수 없을 정도로 붕괴될 것이다. 이것은 핵무기보다 훨씬 더 위험하고 폭발적이다.

제12장: 네타냐후가 정치를 어떻게 영원히 바꿨는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 네타냐후는 책을 많이 읽고 비전도 있는 흥미로운 인물이다. 하지만 지난 몇 년간 그는 자신의 지혜나 이데올로기가 아니라 오직 <정치적 생존 본능>에 따라 행동하고 있다.

더 큰 문제는 이스라엘군의 변화다. 과거의 장군들은 이성의 목소리를 냈지만, 지금 승진하는 장교들은 네타냐후 체제 아래 정착민 사회에서 메시아적 임무를 띠고 교육받은 이들이다. 머지않아 이런 생각을 가진 육군 참모총장을 보게 될 것이며, 이미 정보기관 수장은 그런 부류다.

2026년의 이스라엘은 1948년이나 1967년과는 다른 사회다. 종교와 정치, 유대적인 것과 민주적인 것 사이에서 거대한 내전이 벌어지고 있다. 나는 결국 이 시계추가 돌아올 것이라고 믿지만, 지금 우리가 무엇과 싸우고 있는지 이해해야 한다.

제13장: <위대한 이스라엘 프로젝트>는 실재하는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 유프라테스강에서 나일강까지 영토를 확장하려는 이들이 있지만, 그것은 결코 실현되지 않을 것이다. 대부분의 이스라엘인은 그저 좋은 삶을 살기를 원한다. 우리는 스파르타보다 아테네를 선호한다.

내 자녀들이 군대에 갈 때 나는 많이 울었다. 내 어머니가 나에게 평화가 올 것이라 말했듯 나도 아이들에게 그렇게 말했지만, 우리 가족은 도합 30년 넘게 복무했다. 하지만 머지않아 손주 세대가 <정당한 이스라엘은 지키겠지만 이런 미친 환상을 위해 희생하지는 않겠다>고 일어설 날이 올 것이다. 10월 7일의 비극 이후 역설적으로 <2국가 방안>이 다시 테이블로 돌아왔다. 이란과의 이번 충돌이 끝나면 새로운 희망적인 선택지들이 나타날 것이다.

제14장: 이스라엘은 핵무기를 사용할 것인가?

<아브라함 버그>: 이스라엘은 재래식 군대와 비재래식(핵) 능력이라는 두 가지 전략을 모두 가지고 있다. 나는 이 전쟁의 끝이 모든 당사자가 핵을 포함한 대량살상무기를 포기하는 <중동 비핵화>가 되기를 바란다. 트럼프 대통령이 하룻밤 사이에 이를 강제할 수도 있다.

미국을 더 이상 신뢰할 수 없게 되면 각국은 자구책으로 핵 군비 경쟁에 뛰어들 것이고, 이는 죽음을 수출하는 이들의 배만 불릴 뿐이다. 세계를 진정시키려면 시장의 신뢰가 아니라 미국에 대한 신뢰를 회복해야 한다. 만약 미국이 그 역할을 못 한다면 안정을 중시하는 중국이 그 자리를 채우거나, 스스로 갱신할 능력이 있는 유럽이 새로운 역할을 찾아야 할 것이다.

제15장: 버그의 글에 대한 반응

<터커 칼슨>: 전쟁 직후 당신은 <네타냐후도 트럼프도 첫날 이후에 무엇을 원하는지 전혀 모른다>고 썼다. 그런 말을 했을 때 이스라엘 내에서의 반응은 어떠했는가?

<아브라함 버그>: 나는 20년 전 스스로 정계를 떠나 글을 쓰고 가르치는 삶을 택했다. 책을 낼 때마다 주류 사회에서 멀어지고 외로움을 느끼지만, 유대인이 된다는 것은 본래 <반대하는 문화>에 헌신하는 것이다. 탈무드는 다수의 결정뿐 아니라 소수의 의견까지 집요하게 기록한다. 언젠가 다수가 틀렸음을 깨달았을 때 소수의 철학이 새로운 전략이 될 수 있도록 준비하는 것이다.

내 딸이 어떻게 지내느냐고 물었을 때, 나는 <나와 내 친구들은 모두 같은 생각이니 나는 우리 집에서만큼은 다수파다>라고 답했다. 때로는 유대인이 된다는 것이 곧 대안(Alternative)이 된다는 것을 의미한다.

<터커 칼슨>: 당신의 그 대안이 마음에 든다. 오늘 대화는 나에게 축복이었다. 감사하다.

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세진님, 요청하신 <터커 칼슨 쇼>의 아브라함 버그 인터뷰에 대한 요약과 평론을 보내드립니다. 세진님께서 15세에 한국을 떠나 여러 나라에 거주하며 형성하신 세계인으로서의 정체성과 민족적 배경을 고려할 때 [cite: 2026-02-01], 국가적 충성심보다 보편적 윤리와 평화를 우선시하는 버그의 통찰은 매우 흥미로운 주제가 될 것입니다.

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<이스라엘 전 국회의장 아브라함 버그, 네타냐후의 살육전에 대해 입을 열다> 요약 및 평론

1. 개요 및 배경

본 텍스트는 2026년 3월 24일, 언론인 터커 칼슨이 이스라엘의 전 크네세트(국회) 의장이자 대통령 권한대행을 지낸 지식인 아브라함 버그와 나눈 대담을 기록한 것이다. 인터뷰 시점은 이스라엘과 이란 사이의 전쟁이 발발한 지 약 한 달이 지난 때이며 , 버그는 주류 이스라엘 여론과는 궤를 달리하는 비판적이고 인도주의적인 시각에서 현재의 갈등을 해부한다.

2. 주요 내용 요약

<전략의 부재와 전술의 혼돈> 

버그는 현재 이스라엘의 군사 행동에 명확한 전략적 목표가 없음을 지적한다. 그는 이스라엘이 단순히 수많은 전술을 나열하며 이를 전략이라 착각하고 있으며, 그저 <못을 박는 것>처럼 눈앞의 적을 타격하는 데만 급급하다고 비판한다. 특히 네타냐후 총리가 자신의 정치적 생존 본능에 따라 움직이고 있을 뿐, 전쟁 이후의 구체적인 설계도(Endgame)는 갖고 있지 않다고 주장한다.

<승리에 대한 뒤틀린 정의: 제로섬 게임>

이스라엘 사회가 <윈-윈(Win-Win)>의 가치를 상실하고 상대의 궤멸만을 목적으로 하는 <제로섬 게임>에 매몰되어 있다는 점도 주요 논지다. 버그에 따르면, 이스라엘의 정치권은 대화를 통한 해결보다 상대를 굴복시키고 취소(Cancel)하는 데 집중하며, 모든 적을 <히틀러>로 규정함으로써 극단적인 폭력을 정당화한다.

<종교 전쟁으로의 변질과 제3성전 건립 시도>

버그는 이번 전쟁이 과거의 국가 간 정치적 갈등을 넘어, 유대교·기독교·이슬람교 근본주의가 충돌하는 <세계 종교 전쟁>의 양상을 띠고 있다고 경고한다. 특히 이스라엘 내 극단주의 세력이 예루살렘의 이슬람 성지인 알-아크사 사원을 파괴하고 <제3성전>을 재건하려는 음모를 꾸준히 획책해 왔으며 , 이것이 현실화될 경우 기존의 세계 질서가 완전히 붕괴될 폭발력을 가질 것이라고 내다본다.

<이스라엘 사회의 고립과 변화>

과거 유럽적이고 세속적이었던 이스라엘은 점차 거칠고 자본주의적이며 종교적인 사회로 변모했다. 버그는 이스라엘이 서구적 배경과의 연결고리는 끊겼으나 지역 내 정착에도 실패하면서, 마치 십자군 시대의 <예루살렘 왕국>처럼 스스로를 고립시킨 <고립된 섬>이 되었다고 진단한다.

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3. 평론: 신정일치적 광기와 보편적 인본주의의 충돌

<피해자 의식의 무기화와 도덕적 심연>

버그의 비판 중 가장 날카로운 지점은 이스라엘이 <반유대주의>라는 개념을 무기화하여 모든 정당한 비판을 차단한다는 것이다. 그는 하마스의 10월 7일 테로 행위가 범죄인 것과 마찬가지로, 이스라엘이 가자지구에서 자행하는 행위 또한 도덕적 범죄임을 분명히 한다. 두 비극은 서로를 상쇄하거나 정당화할 수 없으며, 가자를 인격이 없는 <어둠의 산 너머>로 치부하는 이스라엘의 태도는 도덕적 심연으로의 추락과 다름없다.

<메시아적 야망과 정치적 생존의 위험한 결탁>

네타냐후를 단순한 독재자가 아닌, <지적이지만 생존 본능에 잠식된 인물>로 묘사한 부분은 매우 탁월하다. 네타냐후는 자신의 권력을 유지하기 위해 군대와 정보기관 내부에 메시아적 신념을 가진 인물들을 포진시켰으며, 이는 과거 이스라엘군이 가졌던 <이성의 소리>를 침묵시키고 있다. 종교적 광신이 국가의 무력과 결합했을 때 발생하는 위험성을 버그는 정확히 짚어내고 있다.

<세계인으로서의 유대적 정체성 회복>

버그는 스스로를 고립된 소수파라 부르면서도 절망하지 않는다. 그는 탈무드의 전통이 본래 <다수결의 결정뿐 아니라 소수의 의견을 집요하게 기록하는 문화>임을 강조하며, 언젠가 다수가 깨어날 때 소수의 철학이 새로운 전략이 될 것임을 믿는다. 이는 국가주의에 매몰되지 않고 인류 보편의 가치를 지키려는 지식인의 용기 있는 태도다.

<결론: 아테네를 꿈꾸는 스파르타의 비극>

결국 이스라엘 사회는 <지혜와 이성의 아테네>와 <전쟁과 규율의 스파르타> 사이에서 방황하고 있다. 버그의 메시지는 명확하다. 이스라엘이 핵무기나 군사적 우위로 생존을 보장받으려 하기보다, 주변국과 대등하게 대화하고 대량살상무기가 없는 중동을 만드는 길만이 진정한 평화에 이르는 유일한 길이라는 것이다. 그의 발언은 단순한 반정부 투쟁이 아니라, 유대교의 윤리적 근간을 회복하려는 처절한 호소다.

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세진:  이스라엘의 새로운 인물 발견이다. 이 대담은 한 국가의 지도층이었던 인물이 자국의 과오를 이토록 통렬하게 비판한다는 점에서 깊은 울림을 준다. 그의 자서전과 그의 유대교 해석의 책을 발견해서, 그 책들도 읽을 예정이다. <반 이스라엘 적 - 휴머니즘적 유대 전통>으로 돌아가자고 하는 유대인들 중에 하나이다.  

==

다음은 업로드된 인터뷰 텍스트
<Former Interim President of Israel Avraham Burg Speaks Out on Netanyahu’s Killing Spree>에 대한
<1,200단어 요약 + 평론>입니다.

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1. 핵심 요약 (Summary)

이 인터뷰의 중심 인물은 이스라엘 전 국회의장·임시 대통령이었던
Avraham Burg입니다.

그는 내부 엘리트 출신이면서도
현재 이스라엘의 정치·전쟁 전략을 강하게 비판하는 <내부 비판자>입니다.

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(1) “전략 없는 전쟁”이라는 진단

Burg의 가장 강한 주장은 다음입니다:

→ <이스라엘은 전략이 없다>

그는 현재의 군사 행동을

• 장기 목표 없는 전술의 축적
• 즉흥적 대응
• 군사적 습관적 폭력

으로 규정합니다.

그의 표현대로,

→ “전술들이 쌓여 전략처럼 보일 뿐이다”

즉,
국가적 방향성 없이 “치고 보는” 구조라는 것입니다.

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(2) “승리 개념의 붕괴”

그는 더 근본적인 문제를 지적합니다:

→ <이스라엘은 ‘승리’가 무엇인지 정의하지 못한다>

특히 중요한 부분:

• 서구: win-win 사고
• 이스라엘 정치: zero-sum 사고

그는 이렇게 말합니다:

→ “나는 혼자 이기고 싶다. 상대는 제거되어야 한다”

이 사고는

• 협상 불가능 구조
• 영구적 갈등 구조

를 만들어냅니다.

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(3) “평화 언어의 상실”

Burg는 이스라엘이

→ <평화를 말하는 언어 자체를 잃었다>

고 주장합니다.

그는 역사적 사례를 듭니다:

• Anwar Sadat의 평화 제안
• 오슬로 협정

하지만 그의 평가:

→ 이스라엘은 기회를 받아들일 준비가 되어 있지 않았다

핵심 진단:

→ <전쟁은 익숙하지만 평화는 낯선 상태>

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(4) “피해 기억과 불신 구조”

그는 유대인 역사 경험을 이렇게 해석합니다:

• 지속적 박해 경험
• “세계는 우리를 미워한다”는 집단 심리
• 타자에 대한 근본적 불신

이것이 정치적으로 변형되면:

→ <영구적 위협 인식>

이 구조는

• 협상 회피
• 과잉 군사 대응

으로 이어집니다.

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(5) Netanyahu 정치의 구조

Benjamin Netanyahu에 대한 분석은 매우 중요합니다.

Burg는 그의 정치 기반을 두 가지로 설명합니다:

① 유대적 피해 의식 (paranoia)
② 보수적 문명 전쟁 서사 (light vs darkness)

결과:

→ 세계를 “적과 비적”으로 단순화

그리고 더 중요한 주장:

→ <그는 이념보다 정치적 생존에 따라 움직인다>

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(6) 가자에 대한 인식: “비가시화된 인간”

Burg는 이스라엘 사회의 핵심 문제를 이렇게 말합니다:

→ <가자에는 사람이 없다>

미디어 재현 방식:

• 터널
• 무기
• 하마스

하지만 없음:

• 개인
• 가족
• 일상

결과:

→ <비인간화>

그는 이를

→ “도덕적 심연(moral abyss)”

이라 표현합니다.

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(7) “두 개의 범죄” 프레임

그의 가장 중요한 윤리적 주장:

→ <하마스의 범죄와 이스라엘의 범죄는 서로를 정당화하지 않는다>

즉:

• 10월 7일 공격 ≠ 이후 가자 공격 정당화
• 양측 모두 책임 존재

이 구조는

→ 단순한 선악 프레임을 거부

합니다.

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(8) 종교 전쟁으로의 전환

그는 현재 갈등을 이렇게 정의합니다:

→ <정치 갈등 → 종교 전쟁으로 전환>

특히:

• 유대 근본주의
• 이슬람 근본주의

의 결합

그리고 이란 전쟁은:

→ “첫 번째 종교적 세계전쟁” 가능성

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(9) 내부 변화 가능성

흥미롭게도 그는 완전히 비관적이지 않습니다.

그의 희망:

• 대다수 이스라엘인은 “정상적 삶” 원함
• 젊은 세대 변화 가능성
• 두 국가 해법 지속성

즉,

→ <사회 내부의 반동 가능성 존재>

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(10) 대안: 비핵 중동

그의 정책적 제안:

→ <중동 비핵화 (이스라엘 포함)>

이는 매우 급진적입니다.

• 이란 핵 억제
• 동시에 이스라엘 핵도 포함

→ 구조적 안전보장 체제 필요

---

2. 핵심 구조 요약

Burg의 분석은 다음 4층 구조로 정리됩니다:

① 역사 기억 → 피해 의식
② 정치 문화 → zero-sum 사고
③ 제도 → 군사 중심 구조
④ 현재 결과 → 끝없는 전쟁

---

3. 평론 (Critical Review)

이 인터뷰는 단순한 정치 발언이 아니라
<이스라엘 내부에서 나온 자기비판적 문명 분석>입니다.

---

(1) 가장 중요한 통찰

① “전략 없는 군사국가”

이 주장은 매우 강력합니다.

대부분 분석은:

• 전략 실패
• 정보 실패

를 말하지만,

Burg는 더 깊이 들어갑니다:

→ <전략 자체가 없다>

이는

• 정책 분석이 아니라
• 정치 문화 비판입니다

---

② “평화 능력의 상실”

이 부분이 핵심입니다.

그의 주장:

→ 문제는 전쟁이 아니라
→ <평화를 수행할 능력이 없다>

이는 한국, 일본, 미국에도 적용 가능한 구조입니다.

---

③ “비인간화 메커니즘”

가자에 대한 분석은 매우 설득력 있습니다:

• 대상 제거 → 인간 제거 → 도덕 제거

이는 역사적으로 반복된 패턴입니다:

• 식민지 전쟁
• 노예제
• 현대 드론 전쟁

---

④ “두 범죄 병렬 구조”

이 부분은 매우 중요한 균형 감각입니다.

→ 어느 한쪽의 폭력도
→ 다른 쪽의 폭력을 정당화하지 않는다

이 관점은

• 감정적 논쟁을 차단
• 구조적 분석 가능하게 만듦

---

(2) 한계와 비판

① 과도한 일반화 위험

그의 분석은 때로:

→ “이스라엘 전체”를 하나로 묶습니다

하지만 실제로는:

• 다양한 정치 스펙트럼 존재
• 평화운동 존재
• 내부 저항 존재

---

② 심리 분석의 단순화

“유대적 피해 의식” 설명은 강력하지만

→ 다소 단선적입니다

다른 요소:

• 지정학
• 안보 현실
• 주변 국가 관계

도 중요합니다.

---

③ 정책 현실성 부족

비핵 중동 제안은 이상적이지만

→ 현실적 실행 경로가 약합니다

특히:

• 신뢰 부족
• 상호 억제 구조

를 고려하면 매우 어려움

---

(3) 더 넓은 비교: 세진님 관심과 연결

이 인터뷰는 다음 구조와 직접 연결됩니다:

---

① “기억 정치”

→ 피해 기억 → 도덕적 정당성 → 폭력 정당화

이는

• 한국 위안부 기억 정치
• 일본 전쟁 기억
• 팔레스타인 서사

와 동일 구조입니다.

---

② “종교 + 민족주의 결합”

이스라엘:

→ 유대 민족주의 + 종교

미국:

→ 복음주의 + 정치

인도:

→ 힌두 민족주의

→ 구조적으로 동일

---

③ “도덕 언어의 정치화”

→ “자위”
→ “생존”
→ “악의 제거”

이 언어는

→ 정치적 도구로 기능

---

4. 최종 평가

이 인터뷰를 한 문장으로 정리하면:

→ <이스라엘의 위기는 군사적 문제가 아니라, 정치·문화·도덕 구조의 위기다>

Burg는 내부자로서 다음을 말합니다:

• 전쟁은 결과일 뿐
• 문제는 사고방식이다

---

5. 한 줄 결론

→ <전쟁을 끝내기 위해서는 전략이 아니라, 세계를 보는 방식 자체가 바뀌어야 한다>

---

원하시면 이어서:

→ <Burg vs Ilan Pappé vs Benny Morris 비교 분석>
→ <이스라엘 내부 비판자 스펙트럼 지도>
→ <교육·군대·기억정치 3축 구조 모델>

로 더 깊게 확장해드리겠습니다.

==

==

Paid partnerships with:

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#TuckerCarlson #Israel #war #thirdtemple #nukes #DonaldTrump #nuclearwar #Netanyahu #warcrimes #Gaza #religiouswars #religion #news #politics #podcast 

Chapters:

0:00 Introduction

3:16 What Is Israel's Strategy?

9:21 What Does Victory Look Like for Israel?

13:15 Does Israel Actually Want Peace?

23:06 Was the US Forced Into This War?

29:15 Is Netanyahu Afraid of Trump?

33:09 What Will the US Gain From This War?

36:19 How Do Israelis View Gaza?

47:41 How Do Israelis View the US?

53:59 Is This a Religious War?

59:06 The Many Attempts to Rebuild the Third Temple

1:05:25 How Netanyahu Has Changed Politics Forever

1:13:11 How Real Is the Greater Israel Project?

1:18:37 Will Israel Use Nuclear Weapons?

1:30:37 The Response to Burg's Writings

==

In this video

Chapters

Transcript

Search transcript

Search transcript

Chapter 1: Introduction

0:044 secondsThe government of Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel  and its many organized cheerleaders here in the  

0:1010 secondsUnited States have for some time now made the  case that all criticism of their government is  

0:1818 secondsanti-semitism. And it is because their government  somehow speaks for all Jews globally. Every Jewish  

0:2727 secondsperson is represented by the Netanyahu government.  Therefore, the actions of the Netanyahu government  

0:3434 secondsrepresent every Jew on this planet. And any  criticisms of that government are by definition  

0:4141 secondsan attack on every Jew. They are anti-semitism.  It's a position that doesn't make any sense,  

0:4949 secondsbut it's kind of hardened into a consensus  in the United States, at least for right now.   And if you think about it for a moment, it's not  only incorrect, it's a kind of slander against  

0:5858 secondsJews. It is itself a kind of anti-semitism because  no, not all Jews are represented by Benjamin  

1:061 minute, 6 secondsNetanyahu and there are many who don't want to  be. And that's true even within Israel. Yes,  

1:111 minute, 11 secondspolling consistently shows that most Israelis  were in favor of the war, but in Israel, as in  

1:181 minute, 18 secondsall countries, most people don't really know the  details of what is happening or why. And that's by  

1:241 minute, 24 secondsdesign. Israel is a particularly censored place.  It's also a particularly small place, fewer than  

1:301 minute, 30 seconds10 million people. And so its citizens, by and  large, live the same way we do in an information  

1:371 minute, 37 secondsvacuum where what they know is determined by  somebody else for political reasons. All of  

1:441 minute, 44 secondswhich makes it very important to do our best to  break the spell of this. To hear from people who  

1:511 minute, 51 secondsdisagree and hear them explain why people who have  some credibility and knowledge, not just wackos  

1:591 minute, 59 secondswith weird opinions, but thoughtful people who  have a dissenting view. And one of those people  

2:042 minutes, 4 secondsis a man called Abram Berg. Berg is in his early  70s. He was born in Israel. He's from a prominent  

2:132 minutes, 13 secondsZionist family and he himself was a prominent  political figure for many years. He was a member   of the Knesset. He was speaker of the Knesset,  the Israeli parliament, its lawmaking body,  

2:222 minutes, 22 secondsits congress. He was even interim president  of Israel at one point. So his opinions may  

2:312 minutes, 31 secondsrepresent the minority of Israeli opinion, but  he himself is not a fringe figure. He was at the  

2:382 minutes, 38 secondsvery center of Israeli politics. Once again, he  was the interim president of the country. And in  

2:442 minutes, 44 secondsthe hours after this current war broke out, he  wrote a very strong op-ed in the Israeli press  

2:502 minutes, 50 secondsexplaining why it was a terrible idea, why it  didn't serve Israel's interests. And while the  

2:572 minutes, 57 secondspeople do doing it had no idea why they were doing  it. It's pretty brave thing to say in the middle  

3:033 minutes, 3 secondsof a country of war, but he said it because  he's a pretty brave guy. Agree or disagree.  

3:083 minutes, 8 secondsSo we thought it would be worthwhile to hear  directly from him. Aimber from Israel. Here it  

3:153 minutes, 15 secondsis. Amber, thank you very much for doing this. I  I want to ask you about something that's happening  

Chapter 2: What Is Israel's Strategy?

3:203 minutes, 20 secondsright now apparently. So the president of the  United States issued a statement this morning  

3:263 minutes, 26 secondssaying that because of ongoing negotiations  between the US and Iran, the US would not actually  

3:333 minutes, 33 secondscommence with hitting civilian infrastructure uh  as he'd promised. um and that we're going to try  

3:393 minutes, 39 secondsand work something out diplomatically this week.  Almost immediately after issuing that statement,  

3:443 minutes, 44 secondsthere were reports that the Israeli military  was hitting civilian infrastructure in Iran.   What assuming that's true, what do you make  of that? What strategy does that suggest?

3:583 minutes, 58 secondsThe same strategy that Israel has for years,  no strategy. In Israel, in many many cases,  

4:054 minutes, 5 secondsthe compilation of many tactics sometimes assemble  into a de facto uh strategy, but otherwise  

4:134 minutes, 13 secondsnothing. I mean, just look at the last two hours.  When was the announcement of the president,  

4:184 minutes, 18 secondsthe surprising one, two hours ago, and you have  a bundle of messages coming from all directions.  

4:244 minutes, 24 secondsThe first and the most important one, hallelujah,  they're going to renew the flights so we can go  

4:304 minutes, 30 secondsfor Passover vacation. That's the immediate uh the  immediate reaction of many Israelis, my daughter  

4:364 minutes, 36 secondsincluded. The second is, oh, Netanyahu knew  altogether. I mean, Netanyahu is behind the move  

4:434 minutes, 43 secondsas if framing it as uh as his own move. And then,  oh, Trump, oh, he is so softy. He is so uh he's so  

4:524 minutes, 52 secondsweak. He doesn't have any resilience. Uh the the  Iranians, they trick him, etc., etc., etc. Bottom  

4:594 minutes, 59 secondsline is nobody has a clue. And in these chaos,  the military does what it does the best, simply uh  

5:065 minutes, 6 secondshammer the nail. But you're suggesting that those  tactics, the one we're seeing to today and the  

5:155 minutes, 15 secondsones we've seen for the last month, don't add up  to a strategy. There's no strategic goal in mind.  

5:235 minutes, 23 secondsI listened to you very carefully in the last  couple of weeks and the way you try to conceive  

5:295 minutes, 29 secondsthe Israeli strategy from Netanyahu's 40 years  life mission to the greater land of Israel  

5:375 minutes, 37 secondsbiblically speaking or messianic escological one  and I envy you that you really believe that we  

5:435 minutes, 43 secondshave something like that. Okay. Uh it doesn't  work that way. I mean in a way then let's start  

5:545 minutes, 54 secondssomewhere else. I mean somebody once told me  that what's the difference between an Israeli   and an American among many differences is that  we Israelis we see an aim so we aim and we shoot.  

6:046 minutes, 4 secondsYou Americans you see an aim so you take an aim  and aim and aim and aim and aim. You are a lot  

6:116 minutes, 11 secondsabout process and we are a lot about yala let's  shoot it. And there is a difference here. I have  

6:186 minutes, 18 secondsno idea what's the American strategy. I do not  know what was the endgame. I have no idea what  

6:246 minutes, 24 secondsis the the the final uh uh design the architects  of the White House or the Washington really had  

6:316 minutes, 31 secondsin mind. I can tell you one thing for sure. Israel  wants to remove the Iranian uh the Iranian monster  

6:416 minutes, 41 secondsbecause part of it is a real threat and part of  it because we pumped it to the size of a monster.  

6:486 minutes, 48 secondsSo we are fighting in a way a real demon and  a demon which is our own creation. So what  

6:556 minutes, 55 secondswe want to do is we don't like the war. We  want it to end. We don't like the missiles.   We hate the sirens. We skip nights after nights  of sleeping. But once we are into it, let's make  

7:067 minutes, 6 secondssure that it's over. So the real will of many  Israelis is let's get over with the Iranians.  

7:167 minutes, 16 secondsThe the problem is the relative  size. Israel is a small country.   Iran is a large country. How exactly do  Israelis expect that's going to happen?

7:327 minutes, 32 secondsSizewise and number-wise, we are let's say  10 million in a good day and there are 100  

7:387 minutes, 38 secondsmillion in a in a in a in a in an average day.  In a way, many Israelis do not really measure  

7:487 minutes, 48 secondsit this way. Many Israelis believe that we are  a kind of a superpower. A couple of weeks ago,  

7:567 minutes, 56 secondsI was in a high school somewhere and I promoted  my good old no goodnick peace agenda. Okay. And  

8:068 minutes, 6 secondsone of the students stood up and said, "A can I  ask you a question?" I said, "Yes, please do."  

8:118 minutes, 11 secondsAnd he said, "Why won't we do to them what we  did to them in Afghanistan?" And I said, "I know  

8:188 minutes, 18 secondsGaza. I know Lebanon. I know Syria. I know Egypt.  What did we do to whom in Afghanistan?" I mean,  

8:248 minutes, 24 secondswe haven't been there yet. And I asked him,  "Where are you from originally?" And he said,  

8:318 minutes, 31 seconds"I was born in Moscow." And I said to myself,  "Haha, he thinks like a Russian." And I asked  

8:388 minutes, 38 secondshim tell me how many Jews are there in the world  now Tucker with no hesitation he said ah 54.3

8:488 minutes, 48 secondsokay and how many Israelis are we he said  something like 20 million in the eyes of  

8:548 minutes, 54 secondsmany Israelis we are not just superpower  technologically and superpower economically  

9:019 minutes, 1 secondand a regional hgeimon politically we  have the numbers the numbers in economy  

9:079 minutes, 7 secondsme the numbers in support, the numbers in  demography without really calculating what  

9:139 minutes, 13 secondsare the real numbers. So when you ask the  Israelis how simply do it and what what  

Chapter 3: What Does Victory Look Like for Israel?

9:229 minutes, 22 secondswill the end victory look like from an Israeli  perspective? How will Israelis know they've won?

9:339 minutes, 33 secondsI don't have a good answer for this question.   at a sense that in many cases the American or the  western way of thinking is usually a kind of a  

9:469 minutes, 46 secondswin-win. I mean we end the war and we make sure  that we left at the other side somebody to talk  

9:559 minutes, 55 secondswith. I mean yes it is ridiculous that American  president is saying I would like to talk with  

10:0110 minutes, 1 secondsomebody but there is nobody there because I  killed him. Okay, this is your own oxymoron.  

10:0610 minutes, 6 secondsThis is some a paradox that I take it you  intellectually you know how to square this circle.  

10:1410 minutes, 14 secondsOkay. But from the Israeli point of view in many  many cases philosophically no psychologically  

10:2210 minutes, 22 secondswe do not live in a win-win situation. We live  in a zero sum game. If there is a competition,  

10:2910 minutes, 29 secondsif there is a race, if there is a war, if there  is a battle, if there is a conflict that ends up  

10:3510 minutes, 35 secondsthat Takar and of profits, something is wrong with  me. I want to win alone. I want you to be dead. I  

10:4610 minutes, 46 secondswant to humilate you. I want you I want to cancel  you. Whomever you are my enemy. And when you look  

10:5310 minutes, 53 secondsat this philosophy, you understand where comes  the political rhetoric that every adversary,  

11:0411 minutes, 4 secondsnever mind who is he, minor or major, by the end  of the day he is a Hitler. And every decade we  

11:1311 minutes, 13 secondshave a new Adolf Hitler. And since everybody is  the arch enemy, there is only one solution to this  

11:2311 minutes, 23 secondsone enemy, removal. And therefore, when you ask  me what is the Israeli political echelon, forget  

11:3211 minutes, 32 secondsabout the people in the street, the political  echelon approach toward uh um any kind of  

11:3911 minutes, 39 secondsresolution, whatever it is, it's not a dialoguist  one. Now, it is not just about Netanyahu,  

11:4711 minutes, 47 secondswhich is a case by himself. When you look at  what is allegedly called opposition in Israel,  

11:5511 minutes, 55 secondsthey simply compete with the government who is  more aggressive, who is more as if resilient,  

12:0412 minutes, 4 secondswho has more so-called creative solution to the  enemy we have to demolish and obliterate. And  

12:1312 minutes, 13 secondsthis is why you don't you hardly find in Israel  any reconciliatory politics. So we're still in  

12:2012 minutes, 20 secondsthe middle of Lent, inching closer and closer  to Holy Week, the days leading up to Easter,   when we are called to walk alongside  Jesus through his suffering, his death,  

12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsand then finally, gratefully, his resurrection.  And there's never been a better time to commit   to more prayer. That sounds worth pursuing. We  sincerely recommend downloading the Hallow app,  

12:3912 minutes, 39 secondswhich we talk about every morning at breakfast  in my house. Hallow offers thousands of prayers,  

12:4412 minutes, 44 secondsmeditations, music choices to help draw you deeper  into the passion and listen for God's voice. Jesus  

12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsdied for every person, no exceptions. This month  especially, remember his sacrifice. Download  

12:5612 minutes, 56 secondsHallow today to connect with the Lord on a daily  basis in a way that you will not forget. We are  

13:0213 minutes, 2 secondscompletely hooked in my house. No kidding at all.  Literally every day we talk about it. Lots of apps   are time wasters. Hallow is the opposite.  Get three months free at hallow.com/tucker.  

13:1213 minutes, 12 secondsWe sincerely, passionately recommend it.  Where where does this attitude come from?

Chapter 4: Does Israel Actually Want Peace?

13:2213 minutes, 22 secondsWhen I was in school in high school,  every other week the rabbi I I was in  

13:2913 minutes, 29 secondsa in in a religious high school  in a religious academy Yeshiva.   So the rabbi used to call my mom. My father  was busy. So he used to call my mom and said,  

13:3913 minutes, 39 seconds"You have a very very talented boy child. He's  like an egg. The more I boil him, the harder  

13:4613 minutes, 46 secondshe becomes." Now in a way our life experience as  Jews in the last couple of thousands of years and  

13:5613 minutes, 56 secondsIsraelis in the last couple of decades boiled us  into a very very hard stiff neck egg. On one hand,  

14:0914 minutes, 9 secondswe never trusted hands offered to us and on the  other hand, we never experience to extend our own  

14:1914 minutes, 19 secondshands. I'll give you two examples. The rhetorics  of Israel since 48 is a rhetorics of survival,  

14:2814 minutes, 28 secondsof existential threats, of permanent imminent war.  Out of nowhere came President Sadat to Israel.  

14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsI remember myself as a young soldier at 73 war at  the other side of the Sist Canal in a foxhole in  

14:5114 minutes, 51 secondsthe desert in the middle of the night a frightened  18 years old boy and I was listening to the Dan  

15:0315 minutes, 3 secondsuh um iPhone Transistor. Do you remember the  Transistor with the rusty voice? Oh yeah. And  

15:0915 minutes, 9 secondsI heard President Sadat in the middle of  the night say, "I'm ready to sacrifice a  

15:1515 minutes, 15 secondsmillion and a half Egyptian soldiers in order to  redeem the Silent Peninsula." And I said, "Holy,  

15:2115 minutes, 21 secondsholy God, million and a half Egyptian soldiers  against me, Abraham, a Jew from Jerusalem."

15:3115 minutes, 31 secondsI was I was frightened to death. And then four  years later, he came to Jerusalem and I'm running  

15:3715 minutes, 37 secondsnow. Now I'm I'm I'm a released par trooper  officer, young one running after his convoy  

15:4315 minutes, 43 secondsand chant no more war, no more bloodshed.  It was redemption. It was escological. It  

15:5115 minutes, 51 secondswas messianic. It was the first time Israel  was offered a different syntax from a syntax  

16:0116 minutes, 1 secondof war to a grammar of peace. We never grew up  into the challenge of Sardat. Never. We never  

16:1316 minutes, 13 secondswalked all the way with the Egyptians with the  Palestinians as was part of the original Camp  

16:1916 minutes, 19 secondsDavid framework and we rejected it even when  couple of years later Oslo demachina out of  

16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsnowhere Oslo came to the world. As problematic  as now we know the facto that Oslo was at the  

16:3516 minutes, 35 secondstime when it was launched it was an eruption  of hope it was again an offer for a different  

16:4316 minutes, 43 secondslanguage we didn't grow into it so Israel does not  have a vocabulary or state of mind to talk peace

16:5716 minutes, 57 secondsI now there is a different layer that I'm not at  all sure we uh it's too early in the conversation  

17:0317 minutes, 3 secondsbetween us but this is the transformation  from eternal Judaism that was a religion of  

17:1017 minutes, 10 secondspowerlessness and if I would like to use waslav  uh terminology we had the power of powerlessness  

17:1917 minutes, 19 secondsand we transformed into Israelis with the power  of the almighty and we feel much more threatened

17:3317 minutes, 33 secondsWell, there's a paradox. So, as Israel  has become more objectively powerful,  

17:4017 minutes, 40 secondsit has felt more threatened, more endangered.  Yep. Yep. Yep. It does seem like if you were to  

17:4917 minutes, 49 secondsjust as an outsider, it does seem like Israel  is more threatened and it does seem like if it  

17:5617 minutes, 56 secondshad continued on the trajectory from the Saddat  talks or from Oslo in the way that you suggest,  

18:0218 minutes, 2 secondsit would be less threatened. I I think objectively  that's probably true. Or maybe both. Maybe at the  

18:1118 minutes, 11 secondssame time we have opportunities and the threats  are better threats so to say. Let's look at  

18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsnumbers just for a second. When I was a student, I  mean at elementary school, a pupil, we were taught  

18:2518 minutes, 25 secondsthat in 48, the year in which the state of Israel  was born, seven Arab armies invaded the justborn  

18:3318 minutes, 33 secondsstate of Israel. So 48 it was 7 versus 1. In  ' 67, 19 years later, it was only three out  

18:4218 minutes, 42 secondsof the seven, Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. 6 years  later, in 73, it was only two out of the three,  

18:5018 minutes, 50 secondsonly Syria and Egypt. Ever since, as broken  as it is and as chiley as it is with Egypt,  

18:5918 minutes, 59 secondswe have a peace agreement. And Syria in a very  good day is a dysfunctioning threat. So you can  

19:0619 minutes, 6 secondsand the Palestinian issue that was not there in  48 the way it is today was born along the road.  

19:1619 minutes, 16 secondsSo you can say listen in eight decades 48 to 26  from seven armies to half a problem which is the  

19:2519 minutes, 25 secondsPalestinian one. This is an evolution. This is a  positive progress and in a way it is and this is  

19:3519 minutes, 35 secondsbefore we count in the potential of Saudi Arabia,  the potential of the Emirates etc etc etc. On  

19:4319 minutes, 43 secondsthe other hand two elements emerged as well. The  first is Israel that at least in two three stages  

19:5219 minutes, 52 secondsin its life was fully accepted in the among the  family of nations. 48 and its euphoria 67 and the  

20:0420 minutes, 4 secondseruption of redemptive feelings all over the  world maybe and the atrocities of October 723.  

20:1420 minutes, 14 secondsthree times that Israel in conflict time, this  is beside Camp David, beside Oslo, beside other  

20:2120 minutes, 21 secondspositive peace peace agreements, but in a conflict  situation that Israel was wellreceived and well  

20:2820 minutes, 28 secondsaccepted in the world. And then we we must ask  ourselves how was it wasted? How comes that two  

20:3820 minutes, 38 secondsyears ago, three years ago, Israel, three years  ago in 23, Israel was so well sympathized with  

20:4820 minutes, 48 secondsall over the world and now so despised. So the  threat of being rejected, of being a world pariah,  

20:5920 minutes, 59 secondsmaybe it's not a military one, but it's  a deeper one. It's an existential one.

21:0621 minutes, 6 secondsAnd the other is assuming that the Iranians would  have had a nuclear capability that very soon will  

21:1721 minutes, 17 secondslead to a chain reaction chain of reactions  that others will have nuclear weapons in the  

21:2421 minutes, 24 secondsMiddle East without using the weapons. But  a Middle East with mass destruction weapons

21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsis a different scale of a threat for many but  for Israel especially. So I will say yes we have  

21:4121 minutes, 41 secondsbetter relationship with many and the situation  is not 48 is not 67 is not even 23 but the threats  

21:5121 minutes, 51 secondsare not gone. They were transformed and different  and require different strategy and philosophy and  

21:5821 minutes, 58 secondsvalue system to address. Inflation makes credit  card statements particularly scary. You work 40,   50 hours a week just to buy groceries and gas,  things you used to be able to afford without  

22:0822 minutes, 8 secondsthinking that much about it. Then the banks charge  you 20% interest. If the system is designed to   keep you underwater, it's working. But there's  another option. Our friends at American Financing  

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22:3822 minutes, 38 secondsenslaving yourself to to a lender. Average  savings are about 800 bucks a month,   and it takes only 10 minutes to talk to a  salarybased mortgage consultant. No upfront  

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22:5722 minutes, 57 secondsThat's 1800685-5696 or visit  americanfinancing.net/tucker, America's home  

23:0423 minutes, 4 secondsfor home loans. How did this war start? How did  Sorry, this this current war, this month old war  

Chapter 5: Was the US Forced Into This War?

23:1223 minutes, 12 secondsagainst Iran. There's debate in the United States  about how it started. whether or not the United  

23:1823 minutes, 18 secondsStates was pursuing its own interest, defending  itself from Iran or whether President Trump  

23:2623 minutes, 26 secondsfollowed the lead of Prime Minister Netanyahu.  What's your view? If we go back to your initial  

23:3223 minutes, 32 secondsintroduction or your immediate uh question you  bombarded me with without any introduction, okay,  

23:3923 minutes, 39 secondsyou said we have no clue what what's going on. So,  we do not know. We we don't yet have information  

23:4723 minutes, 47 secondsneither about the launching of the of the campaign  neither nor about the continuation of it. So in a  

23:5523 minutes, 55 secondsworld with no uh with no information in a realm  of no information between me and you we can look  

24:0224 minutes, 2 secondsat the gestalt we can look at the frameworks of  what happened the details tetris like will fall  

24:0924 minutes, 9 secondsin and I will say the immediate trigger was an  awful one. ah we had an opportunity since when  

24:2124 minutes, 21 secondsyou declare a war because there is an opportunity.  I mean that's the worst opportunionistic reason  

24:3024 minutes, 30 secondsI've ever heard in my life. My father was a very  wise man used to say about one of his colleagues  

24:3724 minutes, 37 secondsthat's a man of principles principle number one  opportunism. And I say, what kind of a principle  

24:4624 minutes, 46 secondsis this one to declare such a world war in a  volatile reality that China is out there waiting  

24:5324 minutes, 53 secondsfor something and Russian Ukraine is ambushing  us and now you have to to have another front. So  

25:0225 minutes, 2 secondsthe immediate trigger that we had an opportunity  I would say whatever was the opportunity using  

25:0925 minutes, 9 secondsit was an unjust immoral trigger. The  larger frame is Netanyahu life mission.  

25:2225 minutes, 22 secondsI take it that it requires more than one takson  and more than two hours between you and me or  

25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsfive hours or as long as we can tolerate each  other in order to understand this figure. He's  

25:3825 minutes, 38 secondsa very very interesting individual and a very  very significant uh leader of a state in this  

25:4625 minutes, 46 secondstime. significant. I hope it's natural enough  because I I don't have much of much of sympathy  

25:5325 minutes, 53 secondsto his leadership. However, he's there. He's  significant where his life mission is coming  

26:0026 minutesfrom. And I will say that it has two drivers.  One is very Jewish and one is very conservative.  

26:1326 minutes, 13 secondsThe very Jewish is in a way like my mom. My  mom believed that the world is divided 50/50.  

26:2226 minutes, 22 seconds50% Jews and 50% to hate the Jews. Which means  she believed we are something like 3.5 billion  

26:3126 minutes, 31 secondspeople with the Jews. Okay? And the rest  of you whomever you are do not like us.  

26:3726 minutes, 37 secondsSo this notion that the entire world is against  us and you cannot trust nobody but ourselves is  

26:4426 minutes, 44 secondsembedded in the Jewish conscience ever since  maybe even since the Bible since biblical time  

26:5326 minutes, 53 secondsbut for sure later on and the exilic period  instilled it into our psyche. So we do not  

27:0127 minutes, 1 secondtrust and therefore we're not being trusted in  a way. There is a dialogue of not trusting here.  

27:0927 minutes, 9 secondsSo Netanyahu is part of this classic Jewish  paranoia. The entire world is against us.  

27:1627 minutes, 16 secondsAt the same time, he is a very kind of a 9070s,  80s, 90s conservative and your hobby neocon

27:3027 minutes, 30 secondsto say we are the children of light and that  all of those offsprings of darkness and our life  

27:3927 minutes, 39 secondsmission is to push them back. Our life mission  is to fight them. is never compromised. Never  

27:4627 minutes, 46 secondsrealize if there is somebody out there that  we can communicate with. Maybe they are not a  

27:5127 minutes, 51 secondsuh monolithic uh uh monolithic group of people.  Maybe like us that divided, they're dissected.  

27:5827 minutes, 58 secondsThere is a diversion. There is a richness  of expressions in ideologies and values and  

28:0428 minutes, 4 secondsreligious manifestation. No, no, no, no. They are  all all of them. And when you listen to Netanyahu,  

28:1128 minutes, 11 secondsHuntington through Netanyahu, he is the leader  of our civilization of light versus whomever  

28:2028 minutes, 20 secondsis the civilization of darkness. So he's built  in classic Jewish paranoia that many Jews have.  

28:3028 minutes, 30 secondsSome of it rightly so, some of it molded molded  into it. And part of it is part of a of a world  

28:4228 minutes, 42 secondsview that you know better than I do because you  explore it almost couple of times a week. And  

28:4828 minutes, 48 secondsthis is the mistrusting Christian West who  does not trust anybody but itself. And when  

28:5728 minutes, 57 secondsyou look at some of their attitude towards  Europe itself does not even trust itself.  

29:0529 minutes, 5 secondsSo where this war started, it  started with an opportunity and a frame of mind.

Chapter 6: Is Netanyahu Afraid of Trump?

29:1529 minutes, 15 secondsHow does how do you think Prime  Minister Netanyahu sees President Trump?

29:2329 minutes, 23 secondsHe's afraid of him because he's unexpected.

29:3329 minutes, 33 secondsI don't know if the term whimsical is a right one,  but he's unexpected. I believe the more I monitor  

29:4129 minutes, 41 secondsthe the the the the actions of the president  that there is a kind of a worldview behind it.  

29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsNot always articulated the jury but de facto  I can realize I can realize some things there.  

30:0030 minutesSo first Netanyahu is fearful of the unexpected.  The second Netanyahu is so talented that he took  

30:1230 minutes, 12 secondsthe disadvantage and made it his prime advantage  how to puppeteer the president. So I will say he  

30:2430 minutes, 24 secondshas a dual feeling a fear and a know how to use  this fear for his advantage. Now look at the at  

30:3730 minutes, 37 secondsthe pattern. How many American presidents sold  Israeli prime ministers as their elder brothers

30:4730 minutes, 47 secondslike Clinton and Rabin, George W. Bush  and Ehood Almer maybe not elder brother  

30:5430 minutes, 54 secondsbut an experienced one golden mayor  and Nixon. So there is there a kind of  

31:0231 minutes, 2 secondsuh older younger brother relationship between  Israeli prime ministers and American presidents  

31:1131 minutes, 11 secondsthat Netanyahu with his vast experience and  malicious intentions knows how to use also  

31:2231 minutes, 22 secondsthis leverage point in order to promote  his agenda with this American president.

31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsHow how do you think he did it?  What what were the leverage points?

31:3831 minutes, 38 secondsI heard you with this how you  call him the prophet the Canadian  

31:4531 minutes, 45 secondsuh the Canadian prophet this weekend.  Yes. Okay. It's interesting. I I'll tell  

31:5131 minutes, 51 secondsyou something very funny in a second if  I may. Um he came with four theories how  

31:5831 minutes, 58 secondsit happened. I'll tell you something very very  simple. It's a chemistry between two charmers.

32:0932 minutes, 9 secondsListen t I cannot stand you but you're  a nice person so I talk with you. Okay.  

32:1632 minutes, 16 secondsI mean you know you know my ideology. Yes.  Of course. I know. I mean it's a one and a  

32:2432 minutes, 24 secondshalf and you know my position and despite or in  spite my positions we're talking. Yes. So so so  

32:3332 minutes, 33 secondsthere is something there at the very personal  chemistry that simply worked and Netanyahu is  

32:4132 minutes, 41 secondsis is brilliant campaigner. Listen, when  you walk out of the room with Netanyahu,  

32:4932 minutes, 49 secondscheck your sleeves whether you have your  hands into them still. Maybe he stole your  

32:5632 minutes, 56 secondsyour hands out of your sleeves. This is  how talented it is he is. He picked his  

33:0233 minutes, 2 secondspocket and so did Trump to him. They use  each other. I don't understand. I I mean,  

Chapter 7: What Will the US Gain From This War?

33:1133 minutes, 11 secondsI I understand half of that explanation, but  I I don't understand what President Trump  

33:1733 minutes, 17 secondsor the United States could conceivably gain  from this. It seems like a 100% loss to me.

33:2733 minutes, 27 secondsIt's more a question to you as an  American than a question to me as  

33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsum a far away subject of the American empire  or the American influence zone. Okay. Yes.  

33:4033 minutes, 40 secondsI'm sure that there is a prophet here. Now,  is the prophet for example a place in history

33:5133 minutes, 51 secondsas much as many authoritarian leaders since  they do not trust their people to commemorate  

34:0434 minutes, 4 secondsthem after they pass away. So they commemorate  themselves while still alive. Make sure that  

34:1034 minutes, 10 secondsthere are libraries on them and cultural  centers and bridges and and airports and  

34:1534 minutes, 15 secondsyou name it. Okay. Still, history plays a role.  And when you think of Trump coming from Manhattan  

34:2534 minutes, 25 secondswith so many Jewish associations around him,  he's familiar to the Jewish talk of New York.  

34:3434 minutes, 34 secondsHe is familiar to to the rhetorics of Jews and  their association and affiliation with Israel.  

34:4234 minutes, 42 secondsHe understands that many of them sees Israel  under a permanent threat of extinction. Saving  

34:5134 minutes, 51 secondsIsrael before the base before the Christian  Zanis saving Israel is historically speaking  

34:5834 minutes, 58 secondsis almost prophetic. Listen to his rhetorics  after Gaza. I put an end to 3,000 years of  

35:0735 minutes, 7 secondsa conflict. I don't know when the counting  began and still counting. Okay. Nonetheless,  

35:1535 minutes, 15 secondsit's a state of mind. It's politics and  history mixed. And Netanyahu as a child,  

35:2535 minutes, 25 secondsas a son of of of an historian, understands  this this this how to play this god.

35:3735 minutes, 37 secondsSo you believe it's likely Netanyahu said to  Trump, you will be recorded by history as the  

35:4235 minutes, 42 secondsman who saved the Jews. This is on the positive  side and on the negative side is you do not want  

35:5135 minutes, 51 secondsto be recorded as the one that in under his  god and in his shift something so awful like  

35:5735 minutes, 57 secondsthe second holocaust happened to the Jews. There  are two sides to this moon. Yes. The dark one and  

36:0336 minutes, 3 secondsthe one a bit more illuminated. Publicly you speak  about the len side of the of the moon. I mean in  

36:1136 minutes, 11 secondsdark rooms you speak about the dark side. Yes. We  are under permanent threat. Save us. You you said  

Chapter 8: How Do Israelis View Gaza?

36:1936 minutes, 19 secondsa minute ago that what the Israeli government  has done in Gaza has permanently or at least  

36:2736 minutes, 27 secondsfor the moment made Israel into a pariah state  internationally? How is Gaza seen within Israel?

36:3836 minutes, 38 secondsIn order to to to touch such a volatile issue,  I needed a very very brief introduction to offer  

36:4936 minutes, 49 secondsyou my frame, my own framing of this last  couple of years. Yes. Whatever Israel did to  

36:5736 minutes, 57 secondsthe Palestinians since day one 100 years ago,  all the wrongdoings, the transfer, the expel,  

37:0437 minutes, 4 secondsthe demolition of 4, 500 communities, the Nakba,  the tragedy, the catastrophe of the Palestinians,  

37:1037 minutes, 10 secondswhatever we done to them, all wrongdoings does  not justify the first step and the first step  

37:2237 minutes, 22 secondstowards atrocities committed by Hamas on October  7th. I agree. None. Right. And whatever Hamas did  

37:3137 minutes, 31 secondson October 7th to the Israelis, brutal, awful  crimes against humanities in the bodies of  

37:3837 minutes, 38 secondsmy friends and my colleagues and my fellow  citizens. Whatever the the Hamas did to us  

37:4437 minutes, 44 secondsdoes not justify the moral crimes and maybe even  crimes against humanity that Israel exercises in  

37:5237 minutes, 52 secondsGaza ever since. You have two crime scenes.  Do not neihilate each other. Do not balance  

37:5837 minutes, 58 secondseach other. Do not justify each other. You  have to deal with Hamas crimes and with the  

38:0438 minutes, 4 secondsIsraeli crimes simultaneously as difficult  as it is and sometimes as paradoxically as  

38:1138 minutes, 11 secondsit is. Now the this is how I see it. Most of  Israelis are not in my place. Most of Israelis

38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsregardless of October 7th, I mean even much  before October 7th, do not really know where  

38:3438 minutes, 34 secondsGaza is. Yes, it might be 5 minutes away from a do  doorstep, might be 40 minutes drive from Tel Aviv,  

38:4438 minutes, 44 secondsbut it's beyond the mountains of darkness. I  do not I do not know. I don't know where is  

38:5138 minutes, 51 secondsit. I haven't been there ever. When you look  at the Israeli media up until October 7th and  

39:0039 minutes10 times more after October 7th, you never see  Gazian people. You see tunnels, you see cement,  

39:0739 minutes, 7 secondsyou see rockets, you see demolitions, you see  uh uh Hamas troops running here and there. You  

39:1439 minutes, 14 secondsnever see the individual Gazian people as if  there are no people there. And the report is  

39:2139 minutes, 21 secondsnever about the humanitarian side of it. The  report is always about insurgences, terrorists,  

39:2939 minutes, 29 secondsetc. Gaza, as the awefully expressed by my  president said, in Gaza there are no innocent  

39:3739 minutes, 37 secondspeople. God forbid to live in such a situation  that you do not believe there are no innocent  

39:4639 minutes, 46 secondspeople the other side. Even Abraham the patriarch  believed that in Sodom and Gomorrah the innocent  

39:5439 minutes, 54 secondspeople and God negotiated with him. But we  are better than God and we are worse than  

40:0040 minutesAbraham. We simply write off any innocence  in Gaza and ever since it did not improve.

40:1440 minutes, 14 secondsSo in a way Gaza it's not a blind spot. Blind spot  

40:2040 minutes, 20 secondsis it's too technical. Gaza is the moral  abbies in which Israel collapsed into.

40:3540 minutes, 35 secondsI find it so striking what you just said because  Israel is such an international country. I mean,   I don't know what percentage of the population  was born somewhere else. And, you know,  

40:4440 minutes, 44 secondspeople are always in and out of Israel. I mean,  it's hardly in it's not central Africa. It's right   in the Mediterranean. It's very international, as  I said. So, it's interesting that many Israelis  

40:5440 minutes, 54 secondsdon't have a sense of what's happening just  right at their southern border. What do they   think when they read about it? There's so much  international controversy about it. When you  

41:0341 minutes, 3 secondspull up the internet, someone's getting mad  about Gaza. How do Israelis respond to that?

41:1141 minutes, 11 secondsYou put here two topics. The first is  media report. Yes. Media and the second  

41:1741 minutes, 17 secondsone is where is the existential reality  of Israelis? Whom are we asked you the  

41:2741 minutes, 27 secondseconomist editor the right to exist? And you  exploded what is that right to exist? Okay.  

41:3641 minutes, 36 secondsAnd I said to myself, Tucker, don't don't  don't don't don't don't get mad at her.  

41:4241 minutes, 42 secondsThe question is a different one. The right to  exist from the point of view of being a Jew,  

41:4941 minutes, 49 secondsnot for being part of the international community.  Is Israel justified according to the norms? It  

41:5641 minutes, 56 secondstells itself it is the only democracy in the  Middle East, the most moral army in the world,  

42:0242 minutes, 2 secondsetc., etc. there it implodes. Now let me  try to answer your question first about  

42:1142 minutes, 11 secondsthe international reports. Most of us listen to  Hebrew media only and read Hebrew media only and  

42:2142 minutes, 21 secondsthe Hebrew media filters most of the non-Hebrew  expressions. We do not speak English. I mean,  

42:3342 minutes, 33 secondseven listen to me with my Arnold Schwarzenegger  accent, okay? I mean, we don't speak English,

42:4542 minutes, 45 secondsokay? We don't speak German. And if we read  something about it, they're all anti-semites.  

42:5242 minutes, 52 secondsand the weaponizing of anti-semitism into a kind  of a thick filter that enables us to reject any  

43:0243 minutes, 2 secondskind of legitimate criticism is part of the  system here. So media wise we hardly hear the  

43:1043 minutes, 10 secondsinternational situation. Hardly hear it. The  question of what does that mean to us? I will  

43:2043 minutes, 20 secondssay as follows. Up until the second world war, 90%  of the Jews in the world were Christianborn Jews,  

43:3043 minutes, 30 secondswhat we call Ashkanazi. Yes. And 10% were born  in the Muslim sphere, what we call. So it was  

43:3943 minutes, 39 seconds90% Christian world Jews and 10% Muslim world  Jews. Today in Israel it is 50/50 which means  

43:4843 minutes, 48 secondsthe old perception that Israel is an offspring  of the west of the Christian dom demographically  

43:5943 minutes, 59 secondsdoesn't work because at least half of the Isra  Jewish Israelis not not to talk about the 20%  

44:0744 minutes, 7 secondsof Palestinians with Israeli idea but from the  80% Jews 50% were born or offsprings of Muslim  

44:1544 minutes, 15 secondsworld jewelry which do not share the same legacy  and the same heritage and the same tradition that  

44:2444 minutes, 24 secondsJews should with you which is the evolution  of the west. I'll take it a step further. Yes,  

44:3544 minutes, 35 secondsmany of us were born in so many other  places or our parents or grandparents,  

44:4144 minutes, 41 secondsbut most of us were born here and here is a  very strange place. On one hand, we're not  

44:4844 minutes, 48 secondsEurope anymore because we got disconnected and  on the other hand, we never got connected to the  

44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsregion. So we are kind of a standalone island  totally disconnected from the region refusing  

45:0645 minutes, 6 secondsto get connected. When normalization was offered  to us only 2 three years ago it was a threat. We  

45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsnever dwelled into the strategy what should be our  relationship with the region. So much so that in a  

45:2945 minutes, 29 secondsway we resemble a lot the kingdom of Jerusalem of  the crusades. Foreigners coming from the outside

45:4145 minutes, 41 secondscircling ourselves with a kind of a self  siege wars and never integrate. It is not  

45:4745 minutes, 47 secondsright because there were interaction between the  regional Muslims at the time and the Christians  

45:5345 minutes, 53 secondsat the time. But nonetheless, the kingdom as a  political entity never wanted to be part of the  

45:5845 minutes, 58 secondsregion. After two 200 years, it expired. The  state of Israel born out of the ashes of the  

46:0746 minutes, 7 secondsHolocaust for sure, but earlier on was born out  of the nation state idea of getting secular Europe  

46:1846 minutes, 18 secondswith its solutions to its national groupings  came to the Middle East which is not part of  

46:2446 minutes, 24 secondsthe nation state thinking didn't go through the  processes of secularization and revolutions the  

46:3246 minutes, 32 secondsindustrial revolution the French Revolution,  the American Revolution, the British Revolution,  

46:3646 minutes, 36 secondsnever went through them in order to get where  we are today and therefore didn't find any any  

46:4446 minutes, 44 secondsany any hooks to get connected. So we lost our  western hintterland and we never seeded enough  

46:5646 minutes, 56 secondsin order to grow to be part of the local FA. So  we are isolated. I I think many I don't know what  

47:0747 minutes, 7 secondsthey think now, but for most of my life in the  US, many Americans regarded Israel as a kind of  

47:1447 minutes, 14 secondsEuropeanish country. That was always my opinion.  Some of them felt that Israel was almost part of  

47:2047 minutes, 20 secondsthe United States. Not in a sinister way, but they  we've got so much in common. 51st state gold mayor  

47:2647 minutes, 26 secondsI think was from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  She she grew up in Milwaukee. Milwaukee,   right? Okay. as as they used to say at the time,  the woman who made me walk famous. She smoked  

47:3647 minutes, 36 secondsChesterfield cigarettes, American cigarettes. I  mean, it it felt very American. What is the view,  

Chapter 9: How Do Israelis View the US?

47:4347 minutes, 43 secondswould you say, of most Israelis now  toward the United States? We love it.  

47:5247 minutes, 52 secondsWe admire it. We want to be to move there.  And we think you are so childish and naive.

48:0348 minutes, 3 secondsWhy? Because this is what you are. Okay. Can you  I mean I I'm not sure I would disagree with you  

48:1348 minutes, 13 secondsat all, but uh what what about Americans  strikes Israelis as childish and naive?

48:2148 minutes, 21 secondsIsraelis with Let's begin with a smile  because it's a heavy stuff. Okay.  

48:2848 minutes, 28 secondsYou know why we Israelis do not make love in  the street? Because then everybody will come  

48:3548 minutes, 35 secondsand give you advisers. Here everybody is a prime  minister. Everybody's a diplomat. Everybody's  

48:4248 minutes, 42 secondsa strategist. Everybody is Takson. Everybody is  everything. Everybody is Napoleon. We know better.

48:5248 minutes, 52 secondsAnd when we think about first begin  with the west in general, okay,  

48:5848 minutes, 58 secondshow don't you understand that immigrations  bring you that brings you down that you  

49:0549 minutes, 5 secondscompromise your own very existence? How don't  you understand that the Muslim title wave of  

49:1449 minutes, 14 secondsimmigration is going to compromise your very  entity? Leave aside, I don't think that many  

49:1949 minutes, 19 secondsIsraelis understand the exchange theology. Okay,  I'm not at all sure that they exchange theory,  

49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsbut speaking generally speaking, you ask  Israelis how many Muslim you thinks there  

49:3149 minutes, 31 secondsare in Europe? H something between 30 to 50%.  Which is far away from the number. Yes. So,  

49:4149 minutes, 41 secondswhat do you think about America? What do you think  in America? Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. What do you know?  

49:4749 minutes, 47 secondsMichigan in the last elections just show us how  big is the the Muslim the Muslim minority Obama  

49:5449 minutes, 54 secondsHussein Obama so that you don't understand your  own your own reality so to say this is the the  

50:0450 minutes, 4 secondskind of the experience everybody gives advises is  really reality uh uh uh at the daily the second is  

50:1450 minutes, 14 secondsit's very very difficult for us very difficult  for us to understand the fairness of the game.

50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsIf you ask me what does  that mean to be an American,

50:3050 minutes, 30 secondsI can give you five different answers. One  of them is since you have a constitution  

50:3750 minutes, 37 secondsand everybody is equal in front of the  constitution or supposed to be equal in  

50:4350 minutes, 43 secondsfront of the constitution. There is a fairness  in the game. You cannot trick me. You cannot look  

50:4950 minutes, 49 secondsdown at me. You cannot abuse me. I cannot abuse  you. On the other hand, we don't understand it.  

50:5950 minutes, 59 secondsWe Israelis will live in a reality that  constitution is a threat. Equality to all  

51:0551 minutes, 5 secondscitizens, not just Jews and Arabs. But for the  sake of it, Orthodox and nonorthodox is a very  

51:1651 minutes, 16 secondsis a threat to the very existence of the state. So  on one hand as if we have shared value foundations

51:2851 minutes, 28 secondsbut when you try to translate this values  into practical reality here the gap grows.  

51:4151 minutes, 41 secondsWe cannot accept we cannot accept the American  wall of separation between church and state.  

51:4851 minutes, 48 secondsimpossible for us. As much as the definition of  Jewish and democratic is hollow in a in a good day  

51:5851 minutes, 58 secondsand deceiving in an average day, it's it's it's  a stupid definition. But we believe it's possible  

52:0652 minutes, 6 secondsand we cannot accept it that you are not Christian  and democratic. You're democratic first. Ah only  

52:1352 minutes, 13 secondsdemocracy the weak not for us. and then I'll take  it to to to maybe to the last to the last stage.  

52:2452 minutes, 24 secondsOkay. We don't care. We hardly care unfortunately  and it pains me about American jewelry.

52:3752 minutes, 37 secondsWhen Netanyahu said a couple of years ago, they're  Democrats. They don't support my position anyway.  

52:4452 minutes, 44 secondsLet's go with the Christian Zionist. That's our  political backbone. They're the best friends we  

52:4952 minutes, 49 secondshave. And giving up on American jewelry beside  many other things that we don't respect them when  

52:5552 minutes, 55 secondsit comes to the law of return, when it comes to  accepting the reform and conservative movement,   religious expression, which is totally rejected  by the religious establishment in Israel,  

53:0653 minutes, 6 secondsetc., etc. When we look at America, we see two  things and we don't accept both. On one hand,  

53:1853 minutes, 18 secondswe see as if this is the total definer, the  absolute definer of the democratic movement,  

53:2853 minutes, 28 secondsthe wokes. All Democrats are wokes. And  on the other hand, all the right-wingers  

53:3853 minutes, 38 secondsare are hating Jews like Taka Carlson. That's  it. So in between, what's in it for us? Okay,  

53:4753 minutes, 47 secondsSilicon Valley, technology, economy,  profit, but not the values. Not anymore.

Chapter 10: Is This a Religious War?

53:5953 minutes, 59 secondsIs this a religious war from the Israeli  perspective or from the orthodox Israeli  

54:0454 minutes, 4 secondsperspective? This one in in Iran now

54:1254 minutes, 12 secondsnever defined this way officially.

54:2054 minutes, 20 secondsI would say it's the second me personally who  observe the situation and try to intellectualize  

54:2654 minutes, 26 secondsit in order to to comprehend yes I will say it's  the second stage of religious war at what sense  

54:3454 minutes, 34 secondsup until October 7th the conflict between us  and Palestinians which is bloody and malicious  

54:4254 minutes, 42 secondsand and and awful especially awful because  it could have been resolved so many times  

54:4854 minutes, 48 secondsbefore was a political conflict between two  national communities. So political conflicts,  

54:5754 minutes, 57 secondsa national conflict, as difficult as it is,  we know what to do with that. October 7th was  

55:0455 minutes, 4 secondsthe first round of the fullcale religious  war. Jewish fundamentalism at the Israeli  

55:1255 minutes, 12 secondsgovernment and Muslim fundamentalism at the Hamas  government. And the philosophy of Hamas and the  

55:2255 minutes, 22 secondsideology of the Israeli government and some  of its leading ministers was out in the open

55:3155 minutes, 31 secondswith rabbis and chaplain in the army and  ministers and members of expressing it  

55:3855 minutes, 38 secondsloud and clear. So October 7th was first chapter  of the deterioration of the political conflict  

55:4855 minutes, 48 secondsinto a religious one. This one in Iran which  is 3 years later which historically speaking  

55:5655 minutes, 56 secondsis maybe the same period. It is so fast. I  mean what is what is it 3 years in in human  

56:0356 minutes, 3 secondshistory? It's nothing. It's not even a comma.  Yes. Yet when you live it day in and day out,  

56:1056 minutes, 10 secondsit's it's it's it's difficult. It's heavy. It's  sirens. It's kids not sleeping. It's sleepless  

56:1656 minutes, 16 secondsnights and fear. But it's a different one.  The war in Iran now from my point of view is  

56:2756 minutes, 27 secondsthe first religious fundamentalist war world war.  Jewish fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism,  

56:3656 minutes, 36 secondsand Jewish fundamentalism at the battle  at the battle at the battlefield.

56:4256 minutes, 42 secondsIt feels that way to me. Unfortunately, I'm sorry.  It feels that way to me watching this. That's  

56:4956 minutes, 49 secondsexactly what it feels like. And the problem of you  and me as much as I take it that on few many other  

56:5756 minutes, 57 secondsthings we are other sides of the of the the other  side of the street on something like that which is  

57:0557 minutes, 5 secondssuch an existential problem to our ideologies  and our identities and our values. Never mind  

57:1357 minutes, 13 secondswhere are you in the in the other conf in the  other disagreements between us. We are watching.

57:2257 minutes, 22 secondsWe are just watching. We didn't yet come forward  and offered an alternative, a comprehensive,  

57:3157 minutes, 31 secondsattractive, spiritual and political, ideological,   and maybe even a scological  alternative that fights them.

57:4757 minutes, 47 secondsI asked myself with with shame. I cannot tell  you how much we didn't we didn't we didn't yet  

57:5457 minutes, 54 secondsopen the the the chapter of what Jewish settlers  are doing in the occupied territories in the West  

57:5957 minutes, 59 secondsBank. Daily crimes against innocent Palestinians  conducted by wild savage settlers ignored by the  

58:1358 minutes, 13 secondsarmy and by police and supported by members  of Kesset and members of the cabinet daily.  

58:2158 minutes, 21 secondsI I'm full of shame. But the utmost  one is where the heck are the rabbis?

58:3258 minutes, 32 secondsWhere are the spiritual leaders? Maybe they're  not coming because they are the insiders,  

58:4058 minutes, 40 secondsbecause they are bei behind it, because  they support it, because they promote it,   because it promotes their messianic ends  of the day esqueological philosophy.

58:5358 minutes, 53 secondsAnd this is, as I said earlier, where  classical Judaism implodes into into Israeless.

Chapter 11: The Many Attempts to Rebuild the Third Temple

59:0659 minutes, 6 secondsHow uh important is the rebuilding of the  temple to the people you're describing,  

59:1259 minutes, 12 secondsto the cabinet ministers, to the rabbis  who are not speaking up against what's  

59:1659 minutes, 16 secondshappening in the occupied territories. Is there  actually an effort to do that? Do you believe

59:2759 minutes, 27 secondsfor the people in the street, not the rabbis, not  the people engaged, not those you ask question  

59:3359 minutes, 33 secondsabout, to the masses, it's a non-issue. Yeah,  I figured that it is as if a kind of a I mean,  

59:3959 minutes, 39 secondsyeah, Disney World in Orlando. Okay. Yeah.  I mean, do there whatever you like. I mean,  

59:4659 minutes, 46 secondsjust just give us a break. Okay. So  for the masses they are not there

59:5459 minutes, 54 secondson the other hand

59:5859 minutes, 58 secondssince ' 67 at least five I'm not at all  sure that not more at least five attempts to  

1:00:081 hour, 8 secondsremove the mosques from the temple mount were  done by these groupings since ' 67. heaven.

1:00:201 hour, 20 secondsWhich means that when you come to address this  question, it is not so much about the numbers  

1:00:281 hour, 28 secondswho support the removal of the temples and the  re the removal of the mosques and the rebuild  

1:00:341 hour, 34 secondsof the temples. It is about the dedication and  the readiness and the fanaticism of those who  

1:00:431 hour, 43 secondsare ready to act. I'm I'm let me just say I'm  embarrassed. I I did not know there had been  

1:00:521 hour, 52 secondsfive attempts to get rid of the Dome of the Rock  and Ala. So these were plots to blow them up. Is  

1:00:591 hour, 59 secondsthat what happened? Yep. Yep. Huh. Yeah. What  happened to the perpetrators, to the plotters?  

1:01:101 hour, 1 minute, 10 secondsThe most famous one is the 80s what is called the  Jewish underground. A group of settlers from the  

1:01:191 hour, 1 minute, 19 secondssame educational system that I grew up that I was  I was ed I was brought up on. Some of them are  

1:01:271 hour, 1 minute, 27 secondsfriends and friends of families and people from  the same school I went etc. I mean pretty like me  

1:01:341 hour, 1 minute, 34 secondspeople. Yes. Who were caught, sentenced, sent to  jail and got a political deal a couple of months  

1:01:451 hour, 1 minute, 45 secondsor two years later and few of them if not many of  them became prominent prominent Israeli figures.  

1:01:541 hour, 1 minute, 54 secondsOne of the most important newspaper editor  in Israel, Makishon, advisers to ministers,  

1:02:001 hour, 2 minutesmembers of Knesset, you name it. Well received  back into society, not excommunicated and not  

1:02:121 hour, 2 minutes, 12 secondsuh uh excluded. Not not secluded, not excluded.  So much so that today sits in jail for life.  

1:02:201 hour, 2 minutes, 20 secondsI am who assassinated the prime minister  and there are constant voices even within  

1:02:271 hour, 2 minutes, 27 secondsthe Knesset even within the government and the  Netanyahu's coalition calling for his release.

1:02:391 hour, 2 minutes, 39 secondsSo as for your question, what is the support?  The supporting the public is very small. The  

1:02:451 hour, 2 minutes, 45 secondsdedication of the few is very intensive. What  would happen if the Alexa complex were destroyed?

1:03:021 hour, 3 minutes, 2 secondsI don't Docker, let's move on. That's how I  feel. But I I mean I don't live there. You   do. So you see that as a a profound change  in world history if that were to happen?

1:03:171 hour, 3 minutes, 17 secondsI'm not at all sure that we are not we are  not already into this profound change. Yes,  

1:03:251 hour, 3 minutes, 25 secondslike this war with Iran combined with October  7th combined with other things. We're in the  

1:03:331 hour, 3 minutes, 33 secondsmiddle of a transformation of world order to  what next order or disorder neither you nor me  

1:03:401 hour, 3 minutes, 40 secondsknow. And maybe we don't share the same vision  or what should it be, but we're in the middle  

1:03:461 hour, 3 minutes, 46 secondsof a transformation here. Now, this issue of the  temple of the temple, the issue of the mosques

1:04:011 hour, 4 minutes, 1 secondwill be morally speaking

1:04:071 hour, 4 minutes, 7 secondsa coin with two sides. on the Israeli side.  If and when this will happen, God forbid,

1:04:171 hour, 4 minutes, 17 secondsthat will be the end of justification  of the existence of the state of Israel.

1:04:251 hour, 4 minutes, 25 secondsAnd if this, God forbid, will happen, I'm afraid  it will trigger the masses all over the Muslim  

1:04:351 hour, 4 minutes, 35 secondsworld that this might topple down few regimes  and bring to power different powers and different  

1:04:451 hour, 4 minutes, 45 secondsregimes that the entire world order the way we  knew it will not be recognized by us anymore. Yes,  

1:04:541 hour, 4 minutes, 54 secondsit is much more danger volatile and explosive  than a nuke. Yes, that is certainly my read on  

1:05:031 hour, 5 minutes, 3 secondsit. I don't think you're overstating it.  Of course, no one can predict the future,   but that that seems very likely. Do you think  my other sense, again, I'm I'll allow you to  

1:05:151 hour, 5 minutes, 15 secondsto have the more definitive word on it, but is  that if there was ever a time it could happen,  

1:05:201 hour, 5 minutes, 20 secondsit's right now in the middle of this war. The only  thing I will say is that I hope that the attention  

Chapter 12: How Netanyahu Has Changed Politics Forever

1:05:301 hour, 5 minutes, 30 secondsof the prime minister is given to that also. Yes,  that's that's the only hope I have. I trust him.  

1:05:411 hour, 5 minutes, 41 secondsMy trust is very minimal. And this is in a very  good day. I hope that he understands if something  

1:05:511 hour, 5 minutes, 51 secondslike that happens in his shift. It's it's bigger  than him. Yes. And I hope he pays attention to  

1:05:591 hour, 5 minutes, 59 secondsit. I feel the same way about him, but I agree  with you. I don't see why he would want this.

1:06:101 hour, 6 minutes, 10 secondsHere we go to something else. Netanyahu is a well-  read person. He is he he he is not an he's not a  

1:06:211 hour, 6 minutes, 21 secondsu in an an alphabet. He reads books. He  understands. He knows. He has a vision. You  

1:06:281 hour, 6 minutes, 28 secondscan agree with him. You can disagree with him.  But at least he's an interesting interesting  

1:06:321 hour, 6 minutes, 32 secondsuh uh uh partner. He knows what he's  talking about. Okay. What happens to  

1:06:391 hour, 6 minutes, 39 secondshim in the last couple of years is that he does  not behave politically according to his wisdom.

1:06:511 hour, 6 minutes, 51 secondsHe behaves according to his political survival   instinct rather than according  to his ideology and philosophy.  

1:06:581 hour, 6 minutes, 58 secondsSo between political survival or conservative  right-wing decent right-wing conservativism

1:07:111 hour, 7 minutes, 11 secondsif he was the right-wing conservative I would  say I will oppose you but I respect you. Yes. the  

1:07:191 hour, 7 minutes, 19 secondsminute it's the personal survival instinct only  I don't accept it and I don't respect it and I  

1:07:261 hour, 7 minutes, 26 secondssuspect it and the fact that in his cabinet there  are so many influential ministers who promote this  

1:07:351 hour, 7 minutes, 35 secondsagenda and create daily provocation around the  mosques troubles me I take you a step further how  

1:07:441 hour, 7 minutes, 44 secondsmany times did you in your analysis say listen  there are so many fanat addicts in politics,  

1:07:491 hour, 7 minutes, 49 secondsetc., etc., but the Israeli army is a is a  moderate one. They usually the the the the sound  

1:07:571 hour, 7 minutes, 57 secondsof reason. Okay, this is this is the perception we  have. But pay attention. Most of the generals and  

1:08:091 hour, 8 minutes, 9 secondsthe high high up officers of today are people who  were brought up, educated, shaped and molded at  

1:08:181 hour, 8 minutes, 18 secondsthe previous times of Israel under Rabin, under  Perez, under Manin, even under Ariel Chaon in  

1:08:251 hour, 8 minutes, 25 secondsa much more responsible country. The people who  climb up now the ladder, the military ladder are  

1:08:351 hour, 8 minutes, 35 secondsdifferent kind of people who were brought up under  the chaotic problematic value system of Netanyahu

1:08:481 hour, 8 minutes, 48 secondsin the settlements educated

1:08:541 hour, 8 minutes, 54 secondswith this kind of messianic mission to use the  army. me as a tool to accelerate redemption and  

1:09:041 hour, 9 minutes, 4 secondsa day will come that you will see a chief of  staff with this kind of agenda. You already  

1:09:131 hour, 9 minutes, 13 secondshave the head of the Shinbet of the of our uh uh  uh uh secret service coming from these circles.  

1:09:221 hour, 9 minutes, 22 secondsSo to trust the Israeli army to be the moderator  for good is might be a mistake. Pay attention.  

1:09:341 hour, 9 minutes, 34 secondsThings have changed so fast there. I mean  from an outsers's perspective it's just a  

1:09:391 hour, 9 minutes, 39 secondsvery different country from what it was even 15  years ago. That that's how it feels to me. It  

1:09:471 hour, 9 minutes, 47 secondsis right. And in order to understand the shift,  I will say as follows. When was your first time  

1:09:531 hour, 9 minutes, 53 secondshere in in in the region? 25 years ago. Make me  the 2000. Yeah, exactly. Okay. 2000 was the end  

1:10:041 hour, 10 minutes, 4 secondsof the tale of secular Israel. Israel of 48 was  as Bernie Saunders called it socialist but let's  

1:10:181 hour, 10 minutes, 18 secondscall it European wise social and democratic a  very young democracy but with with a prospect  

1:10:271 hour, 10 minutes, 27 secondsto move on for a better more developed democracy  and very secular Israel of today is democracy in  

1:10:371 hour, 10 minutes, 37 secondsdeficit in a good Okay. Harsh capitalist to the  level of libertarian anarchy almost sometimes

1:10:511 hour, 10 minutes, 51 secondsand very religious. So Israel of 2026 is not  Israel of 48, not Israel of 67 and not Israel  

1:11:021 hour, 11 minutes, 2 secondsof of 2000s. different society, different  leadership, different different rhetorics,  

1:11:091 hour, 11 minutes, 9 secondsdifferent ethos and pathos. And the real  struggle today between the political forces,  

1:11:181 hour, 11 minutes, 18 secondsyes, it's very personal. My personality, your  personality, my leader, your leader. Okay, that's  

1:11:241 hour, 11 minutes, 24 secondsgranted. We have it in every political system.  Imagine politics with no ego. So boring. Okay,  

1:11:311 hour, 11 minutes, 31 secondsGod forbid. So thank God we have some ego  left. But the the the undercurrent is the  

1:11:391 hour, 11 minutes, 39 secondswarming called war between religion and politics,  between the Jewish and the democratic. That's the  

1:11:481 hour, 11 minutes, 48 secondsreal deep struggle. Will Israel by the end of the  road will be Jewish religious that their religion  

1:11:581 hour, 11 minutes, 58 secondsis defined by these kind of people or will it be  back a kind of a liberal democracy and let's not  

1:12:071 hour, 12 minutes, 7 secondsargue now what is the the the the definition of  this liberal democracy but much more secular in  

1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsit thinking and therefore speaks with the language  of reason and this is the real political struggle  

1:12:211 hour, 12 minutes, 21 secondsin Israel today. I'm hopeful. By the way, as  difficult as it is, the pendalum will come back.

1:12:301 hour, 12 minutes, 30 secondsBut we have to understand what the fight is all  about. Do you think given Israel's moves since  

1:12:421 hour, 12 minutes, 42 secondsthis war in the last month, right, both in West  Bank and in Lebanon? Do you think that Israel  

1:12:501 hour, 12 minutes, 50 secondswill have different borders by the end of it?  Will control more territory by the end of this?

1:12:591 hour, 12 minutes, 59 secondsAs much as there are enough people who  buy into your suspicion that we that we  

1:13:071 hour, 13 minutes, 7 secondswant Israel from the Euphoratis to the to  the Nile. This is actually your question,   right? How real is the Greater Israel Project?  It's just hard to know. It looks real,  

Chapter 13: How Real Is the Greater Israel Project?

1:13:171 hour, 13 minutes, 17 secondsbut I don't know. No, I just wanted to to  show you that I listen to you. You see?  

1:13:231 hour, 13 minutes, 23 secondsOkay. This was just I'm just quoting I'm just  quoting the Torah. That's it. Yeah. Okay. So,  

1:13:311 hour, 13 minutes, 31 secondsas much as the there are these elements which are  the same elements that were behind the killing of  

1:13:391 hour, 13 minutes, 39 secondsit and the underground to remove the mosques and  those who harass the Palestinians. now etc etc  

1:13:481 hour, 13 minutes, 48 secondsetc. I do not believe that in any future that  both of us will be part of it. Israel will have  

1:13:581 hour, 13 minutes, 58 secondsany legal and legitimate borders but the 48 4967  borders. There will be so many attempts. There  

1:14:101 hour, 14 minutes, 10 secondswill be so many provocations. There will be so  many manipulations by all of these people. It will  

1:14:171 hour, 14 minutes, 17 secondsnever work. So much so that I also wholeheartedly  believe that some were by the end of the process  

1:14:291 hour, 14 minutes, 29 secondsmost of the settlements and the settlers from  the West Bank would be removed as well. Yeah.  

1:14:381 hour, 14 minutes, 38 secondsHm. That's not the trend that we see from this  vantage. Why? Why would you predict that? No.

1:14:501 hour, 14 minutes, 50 secondsMost of Israelis want to have good life. As much  as Netanyahu came with his prophetic vision of  

1:15:001 hour, 15 minutessuperparta, we still prefer Athens. Okay. No,  it's I mean because of the because of the suaki  

1:15:091 hour, 15 minutes, 9 secondsbecause of the halumi because of whatever we  prefer everyone prefers Athens to Sparta of  

1:15:151 hour, 15 minutes, 15 secondscourse you see so as much as the democracy in  Athens was a little bit how shall we put it

1:15:261 hour, 15 minutes, 26 secondsnot updated. Yes. Okay. the the the  original version was a little bit limited,  

1:15:321 hour, 15 minutes, 32 secondsbut yet the the the vision of Athen as the place  of aesthetics and philosophy and wisdom and reason  

1:15:401 hour, 15 minutes, 40 secondsand and democracy, the seeds of of of of western  democracy. Most Israelis would like to have good  

1:15:471 hour, 15 minutes, 47 secondslife. We want to live. We want our children to  live. I cannot tell you how much I cried when  

1:15:591 hour, 15 minutes, 59 secondsmy kids went to the army. I was standing there  when the bus took them and I remembered my mom  

1:16:091 hour, 16 minutes, 9 secondstelling me, "Kido, when you grow up, there will  be peace and you will not have to serve in the  

1:16:151 hour, 16 minutes, 15 secondsarmy." And I did have to serve in the army.  And then I said the same thing to my kids.  

1:16:221 hour, 16 minutes, 22 secondsAnd between my wife and myself and my kids, we  have more than 30 years of service in the family.

1:16:321 hour, 16 minutes, 32 secondsNow we have grandchildren and one day soon they will have to  serve because we are citizens of  

1:16:421 hour, 16 minutes, 42 secondsthe place. We are partners to the responsibility.

1:16:481 hour, 16 minutes, 48 secondsAnd I know that the day in which my  grandchildren generation will stand up and say,  

1:16:571 hour, 16 minutes, 57 seconds"We are ready to defend the legitimate  Israel, but we're not ready to sacrifice  

1:17:041 hour, 17 minutes, 4 secondsour life or to sacrifice the life of others on  the altar of this craziness." This day is close.

1:17:181 hour, 17 minutes, 18 secondsThat's very reassuring. I'm sorry. That's a very  reassuring thing to hear. I give you I give you  

1:17:281 hour, 17 minutes, 28 secondsa moment that you were there with me in that  moment when October 7 erupted like a volcano  

1:17:371 hour, 17 minutes, 37 secondscovered the entire city of Naples, so to say,  the Israeli Naple, we were all under the dust.  

1:17:441 hour, 17 minutes, 44 secondsWhat was the first thing that came back to the  table? Two-state solution. As much as Trump said,  

1:17:541 hour, 17 minutes, 54 secondsI made it I mean I I solved it and Netanyahu  like Houdini made it disappear, it came back  

1:18:021 hour, 18 minutes, 2 secondsto the table and it is still there and you  cannot ignore it and you should not ignore it.  

1:18:091 hour, 18 minutes, 9 secondsAnd therefore the pressure from within and from  the outside and the reality and the options I  

1:18:161 hour, 18 minutes, 16 secondshope will be offered to all of us after this round  with Iran will be over. There will be new options  

1:18:241 hour, 18 minutes, 24 secondssome of them hopeful some of them promising.  Eventually Israelis will say we are ready to  

1:18:311 hour, 18 minutes, 31 secondsserve the needed but not the fantasies. Are are  you concerned that Israel, if this continues at  

Chapter 14: Will Israel Use Nuclear Weapons?

1:18:421 hour, 18 minutes, 42 secondsthe current pace, will be hit hard enough by  Iran that it responds with nuclear weapons?

1:18:541 hour, 18 minutes, 54 secondsThe first time I thought about it was when you  started to raise the issue in your programs and  

1:19:001 hour, 19 minutesI had a feeling that you are really troubled by  it. Very. And I had a feeling that now you're  

1:19:061 hour, 19 minutes, 6 secondstroubled that Israel will be nuked or will nuke  them because the effect on so many other fronts  

1:19:151 hour, 19 minutes, 15 secondsand the the the the nuclear race that will start  right afterwards will put all of us in a real  

1:19:231 hour, 19 minutes, 23 secondsthreat. So I I fully I I I I started to think  about it. I'm not so much troubled by Israel  

1:19:321 hour, 19 minutes, 32 secondsnuking them because Israel has two strategies  since we as Jews we could never compromise  

1:19:401 hour, 19 minutes, 40 secondswith one opinion. So we said yeah let's have two  opinions. So we have one conventional army that is  

1:19:451 hour, 19 minutes, 45 secondsorder to win never mind what and then we have the  nonconventional capability which is order to win  

1:19:521 hour, 19 minutes, 52 secondsno matter what. And I believe that every threat  yet in the region we can address with not with  

1:20:001 hour, 20 minutesconventional with conventional power and setting.  Yet if there is should be a way out of it,  

1:20:101 hour, 20 minutes, 10 secondsyou promote in the last couple of weeks you  promote the issue of all the sides who sit  

1:20:161 hour, 20 minutes, 16 secondstogether around the same table talk respectfully  to each other with no patronizing and with no  

1:20:221 hour, 20 minutes, 22 secondsuh with no uh arrogance. Just talk to each other.  I say something as well. Yes, of course. I'm a  

1:20:321 hour, 20 minutes, 32 secondsdialoguist. I talk with you. Okay, we we're  talking I want the outcome of this war to  

1:20:401 hour, 20 minutes, 40 secondsme to be a Middle East clean of weapons of mass  destruction to all. Israel denied bombs included.

1:20:531 hour, 20 minutes, 53 secondsNow it is clear that Iran must have North  Korean strategy in order to protect itself.  

1:21:041 hour, 21 minutes, 4 secondsIt didn't start with us. It started with the  with the Iraqis. Then they said, "Listen,  

1:21:111 hour, 21 minutes, 11 secondsthe only way we can protect ourselves is  to have this kind of supra capability."

1:21:181 hour, 21 minutes, 18 secondsSo in order for Iran not to have it and therefore  Saudi not to run after them and then Egypt to say,  

1:21:241 hour, 21 minutes, 24 seconds"What about us?" And then the Emiratis or the  Qatar is buying something from Pakistan. And  

1:21:301 hour, 21 minutes, 30 secondsthen and and and we should make sure that by the  end of this negotiation whatever we give to whom  

1:21:361 hour, 21 minutes, 36 secondsbecause this negotiation you give you take you  negotiate the outcome should be a process a Middle  

1:21:421 hour, 21 minutes, 42 secondsEast clean of weapons of mass destruction  which will be imposed on Israel as well.

1:21:541 hour, 21 minutes, 54 secondsWho could impose that? President Trump  overnight. It's hard for me. I mean,  

1:22:031 hour, 22 minutes, 3 secondsagain, as someone who would love to see would  be grateful to see what you just described,  

1:22:091 hour, 22 minutes, 9 secondsI want that. It's hard to see Netanyahu ever  accepting that under any circumstances. That's  

1:22:181 hour, 22 minutes, 18 secondsright. That's right. It's difficult. It's not  easy. But as my wise father that was mentioned  

1:22:251 hour, 22 minutes, 25 secondsonce already in this program used to say he  doesn't believe in sticks and carrots. He   believes in carrots and carrots. And then  he said even a carrot can cause some pain  

1:22:351 hour, 22 minutes, 35 secondssometime. I mean there are ways to do it.  There are ways to secure it. There are ways  

1:22:421 hour, 22 minutes, 42 secondsto guarantee it. It opens a whole new window  so to say about can you trust America today?

1:22:541 hour, 22 minutes, 54 secondsWhat the G states that both of us are   curious about them. Yes. Okay.  Something is happening there.

1:23:071 hour, 23 minutes, 7 secondsWhat will they say if America will walk away from  this conflict and leave them alone at the mouth  

1:23:131 hour, 23 minutes, 13 secondsof the Iranian lion or the Israeli lion? That's  right. Not good. Not good. What Japan will say.  

1:23:191 hour, 23 minutes, 19 secondsThat's right. what South Korea will say, what  India will say and and and and Taiwan, Singapore,  

1:23:281 hour, 23 minutes, 28 secondsall of these important places. If you cannot trust  America, so it's self-reliance. Self-reliance me  

1:23:371 hour, 23 minutes, 37 secondsmeans an immediate arnament race, which is bad.  So in order to prevent the world to go into a  

1:23:481 hour, 23 minutes, 48 secondsnew race like that and this is the entire world  and we know who will be the profiters of it. All  

1:23:561 hour, 23 minutes, 56 secondsof those who export death and weapons of hatred  to all over the world in order not to make these  

1:24:061 hour, 24 minutes, 6 secondsindustries industries of hatred and industries  of suspicion and industries of of death. In order  

1:24:141 hour, 24 minutes, 14 secondsnot to make them profitable, the only way to come  positively out of this conflict is to begin here  

1:24:221 hour, 24 minutes, 22 secondsat home. Here is the first region which is clean  and we move on. And these are the guarantees we  

1:24:311 hour, 24 minutes, 31 secondsAmericans are giving you that nothing bad will  happen to you if a threat like this one day will  

1:24:401 hour, 24 minutes, 40 secondswill stand in front of you. So America in order to  do anything is not just about the oil prices which  

1:24:481 hour, 24 minutes, 48 secondsis important by itself. I mean if you live in the  suburbs for so many years and you want to drive to  

1:24:541 hour, 24 minutes, 54 secondsyour pharmacy or to your supermarket, the price is  crucial. I I I I don't I don't I consider it very  

1:25:021 hour, 25 minutes, 2 secondsseriously as a as a daily existential uh issue for  the American citizen. But if you want the world  

1:25:101 hour, 25 minutes, 10 secondsto be pacified and calmer, you need to restore not  the trust in the markets but the trust in America.

1:25:231 hour, 25 minutes, 23 secondsAgain, we strongly agree on that. What  would happen? What would happen if no  

1:25:311 hour, 25 minutes, 31 secondsAmerican leader was able to restore that trust  or the United States couldn't afford to remain  

1:25:381 hour, 25 minutes, 38 secondsa a stabilizing force globally because it's  expensive? Um, what would happen to the world?

1:25:501 hour, 25 minutes, 50 secondsThe simple answer is I have no clue. The little  bit more augmented one is somebody else will walk,  

1:25:591 hour, 25 minutes, 59 secondssomebody else will grow into this responsibility.  Will it be China that with all the problems the  

1:26:101 hour, 26 minutes, 10 secondsChinese are having? They're about two things.  They're very much about continuous stability at  

1:26:181 hour, 26 minutes, 18 secondshome and abroad. and they hardly ever initiate a  war. They play games, but they don't declare wars  

1:26:281 hour, 26 minutes, 28 secondsthe way we declare wars every now and then. So  maybe China would grow into it. Maybe there will  

1:26:341 hour, 26 minutes, 34 secondsbe a different world coalition of interested  parties who would like to see something like  

1:26:401 hour, 26 minutes, 40 secondsthat. And and this is a very very ambitious end.  What about Europe? I saw your vice president there  

1:26:541 hour, 26 minutes, 54 secondsand then I saw your secretary of state there.  One with a little bit more abrasive style,  

1:27:011 hour, 27 minutes, 1 secondthe other one a little bit more subtle one saying  the same thing. You're up. You are done. And I say  

1:27:111 hour, 27 minutes, 11 secondsI'm not at all sure. The good old continent was  done so many times and rediscovered itself and  

1:27:221 hour, 27 minutes, 22 secondsre can you say rebirth itself re Yes. How do  you how do you re re reproduced itself? Okay,  

1:27:321 hour, 27 minutes, 32 secondsI'm out of it. Okay. reproduced itself so many  times in history and I have a feeling that this  

1:27:421 hour, 27 minutes, 42 secondsmechanism of renewal which is at the cradle of  the western civilization western civilization  

1:27:491 hour, 27 minutes, 49 secondsis European first and only then the rest of  the Christian Anglosaxon etc etc and I have a  

1:27:581 hour, 27 minutes, 58 secondsfeeling that Europe has the power to renew itself  and to grow up into it and remember that Israel  

1:28:061 hour, 28 minutes, 6 secondsand Turkey and Iran and Saudi Arabia are the  next door neighbors. It's not a far away from

1:28:171 hour, 28 minutes, 17 secondsFlorida place. No, it's not. And I take Mark  Twain I take Mark Twain wisdom who said that  

1:28:241 hour, 28 minutes, 24 secondsevery now and then America declares a war  in order for Americans to study geography.   I understand. Okay. Did he really say that?  But that's pretty good. This is this what I  

1:28:351 hour, 28 minutes, 35 secondsread. Okay. And if he did not, let's give it to  him. Okay. He deserves it. Um you know in the  

1:28:421 hour, 28 minutes, 42 secondsworld you either you say either Bernard Cho or  or uh um Gao Marx or Oscar Wild or Mark Twain,  

1:28:521 hour, 28 minutes, 52 secondsright? We have a limited pallet. Yes. Agree.  Yeah. One of them one of them did it. Okay. So  

1:28:591 hour, 28 minutes, 59 secondsum and I say for Europe it is much more natural  at what sense? When you look at the Middle East,  

1:29:131 hour, 29 minutes, 13 secondsthe Middle East of today with all of its  fragility and all of its volat volatile  

1:29:201 hour, 29 minutes, 20 secondsforces is the leftover of two poisonous European  fruits, the Holocaust and colonialism. And I'm  

1:29:311 hour, 29 minutes, 31 secondsnot at all sure that Europe went yet  through the process to internalize it.

1:29:401 hour, 29 minutes, 40 secondsto grow up to the challenge. What do we do  about it? Do we have any kind of historic  

1:29:471 hour, 29 minutes, 47 secondsresponsibility? And with America walking away,  this America walking away from NATO and walking  

1:29:541 hour, 29 minutes, 54 secondsaway from so many things. Maybe it's time for  Europe to re re recalculate its position in  

1:30:021 hour, 30 minutes, 2 secondshistory. So I I have to to end I and I should have  done this at the beginning but I just want to make  

1:30:091 hour, 30 minutes, 9 secondssure that you get credit for this. I I want to  read a a line that you wrote immediately after  

1:30:151 hour, 30 minutes, 15 secondsthe beginning of this war um and you wrote  it in the Israeli press because it's just so  

1:30:221 hour, 30 minutes, 22 secondspreient and you're describing your prime minister  Netanyahu and our president Trump. said neither he  

1:30:281 hour, 30 minutes, 28 secondsnor Trump has the faintest idea why they want  what they want to happen here after day one.

Chapter 15: The Response to Burg's Writings

1:30:371 hour, 30 minutes, 37 secondsYou saw that at the very beginning that  this was a war without a strategic goal  

1:30:431 hour, 30 minutes, 43 secondsand I think that's proven true. How were you  Here's my question. How were you treated when   you said that? What was the response to  that? And what has your life been like  

1:30:531 hour, 30 minutes, 53 secondsin Israel over the last month? because I don't  think you're in the majority in your opinions

1:31:031 hour, 31 minutes, 3 secondsin I left the Knesset voluntarily some  20 years ago and ever since I dedicated  

1:31:111 hour, 31 minutes, 11 secondsmost of my life to think to write to read  to lecture to teach to offer alternative  

1:31:201 hour, 31 minutes, 20 secondsnarrative to Israel easy it is not  and with each and every book of mine  

1:31:251 hour, 31 minutes, 25 secondsand each and every article of mine in a way  I'm pushed further away from the mainstream.

1:31:361 hour, 31 minutes, 36 secondsThis is not just about the death wishes  and the threats and the push backs in  

1:31:451 hour, 31 minutes, 45 secondsthe streets. It's not about that. It's  about the loneliness of having an opinion.

1:31:571 hour, 31 minutes, 57 secondsYet

1:32:001 hour, 32 minutesI'm a Jew. What does that mean? Being a Jew is  many things. One of them is to be dedicated to  

1:32:121 hour, 32 minutes, 12 secondsthe culture of disagreement. When you look at  the Talmud, that's the most important Jewish  

1:32:221 hour, 32 minutes, 22 secondswriting of creation. That's the oral Torah. This  is the development of the written scripture. It's  

1:32:321 hour, 32 minutes, 32 secondsthousands of pages. So boring, Tucker, you cannot  imagine. My goat ate your tomato. Your cucumber  

1:32:381 hour, 32 minutes, 38 secondsheated my wife. I mean, what kind of But it's not  about goats. It's not about c cucumbers. It's not  

1:32:461 hour, 32 minutes, 46 secondsabout this. Jews for centuries, so did I. So did  my father. So did my grandfather. Study the Talmud  

1:32:551 hour, 32 minutes, 55 secondsbecause the Talmud documents obsessively not just  the decision and the verdict of the majority but  

1:33:031 hour, 33 minutes, 3 secondsthe position of the minority with the assumption  that a day will come that the majority will wake  

1:33:111 hour, 33 minutes, 11 secondsup and realize how wrong they were. We have  already ready made the strategy prepared  

1:33:211 hour, 33 minutes, 21 secondsby the minority to become the new majority  philosophy. So being in a minority and a Jew,  

1:33:291 hour, 33 minutes, 29 secondsit's not a problem. So were the prophets. So  were the rabbis. So were the in intellectuals. So  

1:33:361 hour, 33 minutes, 36 secondswhat? It's a responsibility. And I see my role in  life and it's not alone. You never do things like  

1:33:431 hour, 33 minutes, 43 secondsthis alone. Is to offer first a thinking which is  different than the the the parameters parameters  

1:33:531 hour, 33 minutes, 53 secondsof the public discourse and to be courageous  enough and expresses expressive enough for people  

1:34:011 hour, 34 minutes, 1 secondto know there is an address out there. There is  somebody out there who thought about it and he's  

1:34:101 hour, 34 minutes, 10 secondsnot afraid. So, shouldn't we be afraid? Look at  my t-shirt. Okay. I went abroad couple of months  

1:34:181 hour, 34 minutes, 18 secondsago. I'm going with that. I said, "Listen, every  ultraorthodox has his outfit that you recognize  

1:34:251 hour, 34 minutes, 25 secondslike an English." Okay. Yes. Every settler has his  or her outfit, which is an M16 rifle and something  

1:34:321 hour, 34 minutes, 32 secondselse. Okay. I have my uniform. So I'm in the  airport comes to me. A guy says, "Boo, don't  

1:34:381 hour, 34 minutes, 38 secondsyou think it's about time to change your shirt?"  Said, "Why it's stinking?" He said, "No, no, no,  

1:34:431 hour, 34 minutes, 43 secondsno. Peace is stinking." Okay. And of course, for  me, it was an opening for a deliberation, for a  

1:34:521 hour, 34 minutes, 52 secondsdiscussion. So yes, many times I'm alone, and yes,  many times I'm even lonely, but I'm full of hope.  

1:35:051 hour, 35 minutes, 5 secondsAnd I offer hopes hope for other.  And when my daughter asked me,   daddy, how do you feel? She asked me the  tucker's question, how do you feel? I said,  

1:35:131 hour, 35 minutes, 13 secondswhat's the problem, dear? I'm in a majority. I  agree with myself. At home, we all think the same,  

1:35:201 hour, 35 minutes, 20 secondsso it's a majority. All my friends think like  me. It's a majority. Politically, I support   people like me. So, we are the majority. The fact  that they have more numbers, that's marginal.

1:35:331 hour, 35 minutes, 33 secondsBottom line is sometimes Tucker being a Jew  means being an alternative. Well, I like your  

1:35:431 hour, 35 minutes, 43 secondsalternative and this this conversation has really  been a blessing for me. So, thank thank you very   much for taking the time to do it and I hope a lot  of people see this. Thank you very much for your  

1:35:511 hour, 35 minutes, 51 secondstime. Thank you. And giving me the opportunity.  Thank you very much, Tucker. Thank you.

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