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Soraya Deen
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Arabs must stop being stuck in the past-
“For Palestinians, the word ‘Zionism’ carries negative connotations. It symbolizes erasure and the establishment of a new life over their grave. But as I lived more among them and integrated into Jewish society, I understood that true Zionism is love for the land, love for the nation, and recognition of the Other.
All my Jewish friends are Zionists, and they think I am a Zionist because I want to protect Israel and its security. I also think Israel needs to protect me.”
Somaya Bashir defines herself as Arab, Israeli, Palestinian, Muslim, religious, feminist, and as someone who advocates for the separation between religion and State.
Now, she plans to run for the Knesset on the ticket of a Zionist party, the Democrats, led by Yair Golan.
Mike Prozan
by author
Exactly. Remember what happened in it? Sure. But letting it dominate your actions for 80 years is not a recipe for success.
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Gustavo Gutierrez
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I’m part Choctaw, as a federally recognized Native American tribe, the U.S. has entered into treaties with more than 500 indigenous communities known as tribal sovereignty.
If Israel has “won” the war, then they should grant citizenship to ALL Palestinians and give them securities that their homes and village hamlets are safe from squatters. This will also allow displaced Palestinians the right to return to their ancestral homeland if they so wish.
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Svetlana Strokolis
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Gustavo Gutierrez maybe start to read books
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Shira Bitansky Javor
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Gustavo Gutierrez responding to you as I believe you would be open to honest conversation. What European colonialism did to native Americans is not in any shape way or historical.facts comparable to anything happening in the middle east. It is not in dispute the Jews originated from the land where Israel is today, according to plenty of archeological evidence. Additionally, it is easy to research that during 7th century and than again around the 13th century Arabs colonized most of the middle east and parts of Europe, including btw countries tries like Spain.
In regards to the region where the Ottoman mandate was and later the British mandate of Palestine, Jews have been living there for hundreds of years alongside Arabs and in pews from the British and ottoman mandate you can see lands owned by Jews and some by Arabs. In 47, a solution was declared by the UN with a partition plan giving the Arabs a significant bigger piece if land than what was actually legally owned by them and bigger than the Jewish state proposed and the league of Arab nations not only rejected it, but declared a war promising to annihilate EVERY JEW already living there (you may want to research hajj amin Al humanity and his collaboration with Nazis) - during which war the Arab league urged all the Arab inhabitants of cities or villages to escape yo neighboring Arab lands and to return victorious.
Unfortunately for the poor residents who believed the Arab leaders, the Jews won and established a prosperous land that is Israel. Any Arab living in the region wa suffered a citizenship and many took it, some however rejected this and ever since have been hoping the Jews still die so they can reconquor the land. There is no effort to establish success, peace or anything that will improve every day lives, money is spent on war and violence instead on prosperity. Its a shame and promoting obsessing about this loss will help no one
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Vicki Bell Olubo
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Gustavo Gutierrez Your narrative is slightly incorrect. For one, Palestinians are not indigenous to Israel. All you have to do is read Mark Twain to understand this, because he wrote about it in the 1860s. When he went there to view the holy lands, he wrote about it being in disrepair and desolate, that you could ride a camel miles in any direction and never see a person. And that's because at that time that entire area was either a disease-ridden swamp, or desolate desert that couldn't grow anything.
It was after Mark Twain wrote about this, that the Ottoman Turks started encouraging Jewish people to move there because they were the only ones willing to buy the land! The Ottoman Turks sold Jewish people the land, and it wasn't just European Jews, the vast majority came from Arab countries. It was the Jewish people that drained the swamps, irrigated the desert and set up agricultural businesses that then drew the Arabs from the surrounding Arab countries to that area.
The non-European Jewish majority includes communities from Yemen, Syria, Morocco, Egypt, Turkey, Ethiopia, India, Libya, Tunisia, Iraq, Kurdistan, Afghanistan, and Iran.
In fact, the 1st major wave of immigration to Ottoman Palestine was in 1881, from Yemen, known as E’eleh BeTamar, saw about 2,500 Yemeni Jews moved to Ottoman Palestine.
And even after 1948, non-European Jews continued to emigrate to Israel. For example, operation Solomon in 1991 saw 35 nonstop Israeli flights from Ethiopia to Israel to bring over 14,000 Ethiopian Jews to Israel. During this process eight children were born on airplanes on their way to Israel! And one flight carried over 1000 people, including two children that were born on that flight, which holds the world record for the most passengers on an aircraft.
Prior to 1948 it was the Jews that called themselves Palestinians, as Palestinian Arabs that came from that area during this time explained to me, being called a Palestinian was an insult to the Arabs and was being called a Jew.
As Arabs that either came from that area in 1948 as refugees, or their children have told me, the Arabs did not call themselves Palestinian but referred to them as the area they came from and then Palestinian. For example, Iraqi Palestinian, Persian Palestinian, Lebanese Palestinian etcetera.
And most Palestinians that lived in that area held Jordanian citizenship, because the area that is now Jordan was given to the Palestinian Arabs to be their homeland. They were considered Jordanian until 1967 when king Hussein stripped all Palestinian Arabs of Jordanian citizenship and told them from now on they would be called Palestinians. So the race of Palestinian literally began in 1967!
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David Robert Lewis
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Gustavo Gutierrez There is no "Palestinian" ethnicity. It is an identity created by the British when they were awarded a Mandate for Palestine that included what is now Jordan. Golda Meir, the third Prime Minister of Israel was Palestinian with a passport issued by the British Palestinian authorities. The first Free Palestine movement was entirely comprised of Jews, as was the Palestinian soccer team, and Palestinian Symphonic Orchestra.
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Gregg Eisenberg
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Gustavo Gutierrez What about the part about them swearing to slaughter every Jewish man, woman and child, like they used to be able do? What is the 'part-Choctaw" solution to this history of rejectionism & violence?
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Joseph Elie
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Gustavo Gutierrez native American never blew themselves up in the cafes, buses, nightclubs... And were never taught from childhood that their ultimate purpose in life is to kill Jews. These are two and completely different realities
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Erez Frankel Rubner
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Gustavo Gutierrez
Why?
It's really very simple, anyone inside the country after the war became an Israeli citizen, anyone outside is not.
Mind you that all Arabs in Judea and Samaria (still "Palestine" according to you, so not even refugees) became Jordanian citizens after the war. No one had an issue.
Minorities all over the world, and all throughout history left their geographic homes because of war or persecution, they don't get citizenships back at whatever states now at that geography, they don't get to "go back home". This is true to Vietnamese, to French and Germans after WW2, it's true to millions of Jews globally, and aome 800,000 expelled from Arab countries here in the middle east. Why are "Palestinians" so much more entitled than all other humans ever?
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R. Ben Madison
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Gustavo Gutierrez That's not what Palestinians want.
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Paul Sinnott
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Gustavo Gutierrez and what if the 850,000 Jess expelled from the Arab nations ?
The same Arab nations that told the Arabs (you call Palestinians) to leave Israel becythey were going to raze the place.
What about their rights ?
They had citizenship in those Arab countries and it was stripped from them
What’s your answer for them ?
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Grant Sofia
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Gustavo Gutierrez the issue is that they don't want israeli citizenship. That's everything. they want israel gone along with the jews.
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Eki Anas
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Grant Sofia coz it's their land and u stabbed them in the back
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Grant Sofia
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Eki Anas It's not their land and their Arab allies stabbed them in the back when they told them to leave so they could finish off the Jews in a war they then started and lost.
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Norman Silbert
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It is encouraging to hear a practical voice of common sense coming from a member of the Arab community. Taking her advice can only make improve life for everyone. We are all citizens of the same country and we all deserve to live together in an atmosphere of cooperation and respect.
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Kakarot Mack
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Norman Silbert says the Zionist pedo Nazi Jew that’s still cry’s victim over some bull shit “Holocaust “
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Arshad Cader
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LOL.
There were uprooted from their homes and villages and no signs of returning back.
What the f.***. are you suggesting them while being a propaganda machine of those who did this to them?
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دين اخ
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Arshad Cader she’s suggesting that the palestinians accept these land grabbers and murderers with an open arms. And just forget about everything. What a disgusting person.
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Arshad Cader
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دين اخ exactly
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Aaron Goldman
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Arshad Cader - well for a start, she would be well aware of the similar number of Jews, who lost their homes and villages in surrounding Arab countries at the same time. She would see that the problem is not only Israel and that for the problem to be solved for the Palestinians, the same problem would need to be sorted for the Jews, and she would see how those Jews from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria etc, moved forward with their lives and have prospered, unlike her brothers and sisters..
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Arshad Cader
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Aaron Goldman
Palestinians have nothing to do with what some "other" Arab countries do to Jews.
Palestinians have nothing to do with the crimes of Europe towards the Jews.
Shutup
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Rena
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Arshad Cader
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Bubba Boo
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Arshad Cader you do know that the vast majority of them left voluntarily at the suggestion of the Arab armies, who told them they could return after they had defeated the Jews? You know that right?
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Grant Sofia
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Arshad Cader Because you don't understand what really happened back then, and the Arabs who are Israeli citizens stayed instead of leaving.
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Dick Jones
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You mean like the 900,000+ Mizrahi Jews expelled from Muslim majority countries? While Iran tried to use the handful left there for propaganda.
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Tzadik Vanderhoof
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Arshad Cader On Oct 7, 2023, Palestinians perpetrated one of the most horrific, savage campaigns of genocide in history. They invaded their neighbors to rape girls to death, slaughter children in their beds, and burn entire families in their homes.
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Cyndi Jay
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Arshad Cader You must be talking about the 850 thousand jews who got uprooted and exiled from their homes in neighboring arab countries. Luckily they didnt become generational refugees as the " palestinians" have. and went on with their lives in their new homes. They lost homes, businesses, possesions, bank accounts, everything they owned other then what they could carry.
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Arshad Cader
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Cyndi Jay am about the fcking holocaust
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Arshad Cader
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Cyndi Jay
Palestinians have nothing to do with what some "other" Arab countries do to Jews.
Palestinians have nothing to do with the crimes of Europe towards the Jews.
Shutup
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Cyndi Jay
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Arshad Cader " Palestinains" come from egypt, syria, lebanon, saudi ARABIA, Jordan, iraq, iran, among other neighboring countries. The most famous " palestinian" of them all was born in egypt,, ,arafat. You mention the Nabka, where the arabs tried to genocide all the jews, had told the arabs lving in the area to leave , and come back in a week when all the jews were driven into the sea. Genocide failed that time too. The people who didnt listen and leave ended up becoming israeli citizens,, part of the 2.6 MILLION ARABS who live in israel .
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Cyndi Jay
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Arshad Cader European crimes? Wtf you on about?
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Ezer Klein
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Arshad Cader Oh please! "Uprooted"? They've never figured out how to care about their own children and future more than they hate Jews. They can't imagine a future where Israel exists so they are stuck in misery. They teach their children to glorify violence and death rather than peace. They could have had a state MULTIPLE times but kept making stupid decisions to sabotage it. The fact remains that most of the so-called Palestinians were from Egypt and Syria and the minority were actually from what is now Israel. In 1948 at the time of the "Nakba" they only lived on and owned maybe 30% of the land they claim as "theirs". For Lord's sake the "Nakba" itself was first formulated as a 'catastrophe' that the four Arab armies lost the war, not that Arabs were forced from their homes. If the Arab League hadn't decided to attack Israel they'd never have been kicked off the land they lived on. The entire "Palestinian" narrative is a load of bullsh-- perpetuated by idiots like you who don't know actual history. You're doing them a disservice. Shut up.
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논쟁을 분석하고, 정의와 평화를 위해 평론해주세요
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세진님, 공유해주신 자료를 바탕으로 현재 진행 중인 논쟁의 핵심을 분석하고, 정의와 평화를 향한 관점에서 다음과 같이 평론한다.
1. 논쟁의 핵심 분석: <과거의 기억> 대 <미래의 실용주의>
이 논쟁은 수미야 바시르(Sumiya Bashir)라는 인물이 제시한 <나크바(Nakba)를 잊지 말되, 앞으로 나아가야 한다>는 주장으로부터 촉발되었다.
변화의 시도: 바시르는 아랍계 이스라엘인이자 무슬림으로서, 과거의 상처에 매몰되기보다 이스라엘 정치 체제 내부에서 영향력을 행사해야 한다고 주장한다. 이는 생존과 발전을 위한 실용적 선택으로 풀이된다.
격렬한 반대: 반대 측은 나크바가 단순한 과거가 아니라 현재진행형인 가해(가자 지구 상황, 정착촌 확장 등)라고 반박한다. 이들에게 바시르의 행보는 정의를 저버린 배신이자 <토착 정보원>의 타협으로 비춰진다.
역사적 정당성 대결: 댓글 게시판은 유대인의 역사적 권리(고대 사료, 고고학적 근거)와 팔레스타인인의 거주 권리(현대 식민주의, 강제 이주)가 충돌하는 거대한 전장이 되었다.
2. 정의와 평화를 위한 평론
고통의 비교를 넘어선 공감의 필요성
논쟁의 많은 부분이 홀로코스트와 나크바 중 어느 것이 더 비극적인가를 두고 다툰다. 그러나 정의는 한쪽의 비극을 증명하기 위해 다른 쪽의 비극을 부정하는 데서 오지 않는다. 진정한 평화는 유대인이 겪은 역사적 박해의 공포와 팔레스타인인이 겪는 상실의 고통을 동시에 인정할 때 비로소 시작될 수 있다.
정의의 전제 조건: 책임과 보상
일부 사용자가 주장하듯 <무조건적인 용서>는 자칫 가해를 정당화하는 도구가 될 수 있다. 남아프리카공화국의 사례처럼, 진정한 화해를 위해서는 과거의 잘못에 대한 인정과 그에 따른 정의로운 보상이 선행되어야 한다. <그냥 잊으라>는 요구는 피해자에게 또 다른 폭력이 될 수 있음을 직시해야 한다.
내부로부터의 변화와 연대
바시르의 시도는 비록 거센 비난을 받고 있지만, 증오의 연쇄를 끊으려는 하나의 실험으로 볼 수 있다. 유대인과 아랍인이 같은 언어와 문화를 공유하며 조화롭게 살았던 과거의 기억을 복원하려는 노력(엘리야후 엘랴샤르의 언급처럼)은, 배타적 민족주의를 넘어선 <세계인>으로서의 연대 가능성을 시사한다.
결론: 평화를 위한 제언
정의는 과거를 지우는 것이 아니라, 과거를 올바르게 기억하고 그 토대 위에 더 이상 같은 비극이 반복되지 않는 구조를 만드는 것이다. 현재의 논쟁이 서로를 향한 <악마화>에 그치지 않고, 서로의 존재를 승인하는 <공존의 정치>로 나아가기를 바란다.
세진님은 세계인으로서 이러한 갈등의 역사와 현재를 보며, 한 나라에 얽매이지 않는 정의의 기준에 대해 어떻게 생각하는가?
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