Who is Bezalel Smotrich: the self-described messianic 'fascist' in charge of the West Bank?
Middle East Eye
and MEE EXPLAINS
7,050 views May 22, 2026 MEE LIVE
Rogue Israeli ministers cause grief for Netanyahu abroad (but far more grief for Palestinians at home). Plus, a narrative tour of the West Bank today.
On an episode of MEE Live, we are joined by Palestinian physician Mustafa Barghouti and Israeli journalist Meron Rapoport to speak about Bezalel Smotrich, the self-described messianic "fascist" in charge of the West Bank.
We are then joined by Peter Oborne to tell us of the terror and destruction he saw in the West Bank on his most recent visit.
Watch MEE LIVE, our new biweekly live news programme, where we take a look at the news shaping our world through breaking coverage, expert analysis and hard-hitting interviews.
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1. 영상 스크립트 요약
국제형사재판소(ICC)의 체포영장 청구와 스모트리히의 권력
중동 매체 미들이스트아이(MEE)의 보도에 따르면, 국제형사재판소(ICC) 검찰청은 강제 이주, 박해, 아파르트헤이트 혐의로 이스라엘 재무장관 베잘렐 스모트리히에 대한 체포영장을 비밀리에 청구하였다. 영장이 승인된다면 국제법정 역사상 아파르트헤이트 범죄로 발부되는 최초의 영장이자, 베냐민 네타냐후 총리 및 요아브 갈란트 전 국방장관에 이어 세 번째로 영장이 발부되는 이스라엘 고위 관료 사례가 된다. 스모트리히는 이를 <전쟁 선포>라며 반발했고, 법정이 아닌 팔레스타인인들을 향해 베두인 마을 철거 명령을 내리는 등 즉각적인 보복 조치를 단행하였다.
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스모트리히는 재무장관직 외에도 국방부 내에 별도의 포트폴리오를 보유하여 요르단 강 서안지구(West Bank)를 사실상 통치하는 막강한 권력을 행사하고 있다. 그는 국제법상 불법인 유대인 정착촌을 전례 없는 속도로 확장하고 자금을 지원해 왔다.
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서안지구의 인도적·경제적 위기 (무스타파 바르구티의 증언)
팔레스타인 의사이자 정치인인 무스타파 바르구티는 스모트리히의 정책이 팔레스타인인들의 절멸과 민족 청소를 목표로 한다고 고발한다. 스모트리히가 주장하는 가자지구와 서안지구 팔레스타인인의 <자발적 이주>는 실상 테러를 일삼는 유대인 정착민 갱단이 총칼로 주민들을 위협하고 방화와 폭력을 행사하여 쫓아내는 강제 추방의 미화에 불과하다.
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더불어 스모트리히는 팔레스타인 자치정부(PA)의 세입 환수금 중 53억 달러를 압류하여 자치정부를 재정적으로 고사시켰다. 이로 인해 의사와 간호사 등 공공부문 급여 지급이 중단되었고, 의약품 조달이 불가능해져 암 환자들이 치료를 받지 못하는 비극이 발생하고 있다. 또한 25만 명의 노동자가 일자리를 잃었으며, 서안지구 전역에 설치된 1,300개의 군사 검문소와 250개의 차단문이 경제 활동과 이동의 자유를 완전히 봉쇄하고 있다.
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이스라엘 정치의 극우화와 국내외 반응 (메론 라포포트의 증언)
이스라엘 저널리스트 메론 라포포트는 스모트리히의 정당 자체는 지지율이 낮아 차기 총선에서 의회(크네세트) 퇴출 위기에 처해 있으나, 그의 <결정적 승리(decisive victory)> 이데올로기는 이미 이스라엘 사회의 주류로 자리 잡았다고 분석한다. 2023년 사법부 개편 반대 시위 당시 스모트리히는 민주주의를 위협하는 악인으로 여겨졌으나, 2023년 10월 7일 하마스의 공격 이후 분위기가 급변하였다. 기존 네타냐후 정부의 <분쟁 관리> 방식이 실패로 증명되면서, 이스라엘 대중 사이에서 팔레스타인과의 타협이나 공존은 완전히 배제되었고 스모트리히가 주장한 서안지구의 사실상 합병 및 팔레스타인 축출 노선이 승리하게 되었다는 것이다.
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최근 또 다른 극우 장관인 이타마르 벤그비르 국가안보장관이 국제 구호선(flotilla) 활동가들을 구금하고 학대하는 영상을 공개하여 서구 사회의 강한 비판을 받았다. 네타냐후 총리가 이를 이례적으로 비판한 것은 행위 자체에 반대해서가 아니라, 선거를 앞두고 온건 우파 성향의 나프탈리 베네트 장관에게 표를 빼앗길까 우려하여 서구 사회에 <합리적인 척> 외교적 제스처를 취한 것에 불과하다고 폭로된다.
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군사 통치에서 정착민 민간 통치로의 전환 (피터 오본의 목격)
영국 언론인 피터 오본은 서안지구의 실태를 직접 목격하고 더욱 끔찍해진 현실을 증언한다. 과거 서안지구는 명목상 군사 점령지로서 국제법에 따라 피점령민의 이익을 고려해야 하는 군대의 통제를 받았고, 최소한의 예측 가능성이 존재했다. 그러나 네타냐후와의 극우 연정 합의를 통해 서안지구의 통치권이 스모트리히가 신설한 <정착촌 관리청>으로 이관되면서 민간 정치인과 정착민들이 권력을 장악하였다.
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무장한 유대인 정착민들은 벤그비르 장관이 보급한 총기를 휘두르며 야간에 팔레스타인 마을을 습격해 가축을 훔치고 건물을 방화하는 등 통제 불능의 폭력을 행사하고 있다. 팔레스타인 자치정부(PA)는 사실상 이스라엘 군대의 하수인으로 전락하여 7만 명의 보안군을 보유하고도 정착민의 폭력으로부터 자국 민간인들을 전혀 보호하지 못하고 있다. 오본은 서구 정치인들이 팔레스타인인들이 당해온 잔혹한 고문과 살해에는 침묵하다가, 백인 유럽인 활동가들이 경미한 부상을 입자 비로소 분노하는 서구 사회의 인종주의적 이중잣대를 강하게 비판하였다.
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2. 평론: 구조화된 폭력과 메시아적 파시즘의 주류화
본 스크립트는 이스라엘 내 극우 세력의 핵심 인물인 베잘렐 스모트리히의 권력 획득 과정과 그가 요르단 강 서안지구에서 자행하고 있는 법적·경제적·물리적 압박의 실태를 내부 고발자들과 저널리스트의 시각을 통해 생생하게 폭로한다. 이 텍스트가 지닌 가장 중요한 가치는 스모트리히라는 인물을 단순히 개별적인 <광신도>나 변종으로 취급하지 않고, 이스라엘 국가 시스템이 어떻게 파시즘을 제도화하고 주류화했는지를 구조적으로 보여준다는 점에 있다.
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제도화된 아파르트헤이트와 민간 통치의 역설
가장 주목해야 할 지점은 군사 통치에서 민간 통치로의 전환이 지닌 기만성이다. 일반적인 민주주의 관념에서 군사정치가 끝나고 민간 행정으로 이행하는 것은 인권 신장과 점진적 민주화를 의미한다. 그러나 서안지구의 유대인 정착민 파시즘 체제 하에서는 이 공식이 정반대로 뒤집힌다. 군대는 최소한 국제법상의 <점령국 의무>라는 형식적 제약이라도 의식하지만, 스모트리히가 이끄는 민간 정착촌 관리청은 오직 유대인 정착민의 이익만을 대변하며 팔레스타인인의 존재 자체를 지우는 데 목적을 둔다. 즉, 군사 통치의 종료는 평화의 서막이 아니라, 법적 규제와 감시에서 벗어난 정착민들의 폭력이 국가 권력과 결탁하여 전면화되는 <합법적 무법지대>의 완성을 의미한다.
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경제적 단절을 통한 구조적 제노사이드
텍스트는 스모트리히가 자행하는 경제적 전쟁의 파괴력을 잘 짚어내고 있다. 폭탄과 총칼을 앞세운 물리적 학살 못지않게 치명적인 것은 팔레스타인 자치정부의 세입 환수금을 압류하고 노동 비자를 차단하는 경제적 고사 작전이다. 의사와 간호사의 급여가 끊기고 의료 체계가 붕괴하여 암 환자들이 사망에 이르는 현실은, 직접적인 유혈 사태 없이도 한 공동체를 서서히 파멸로 몰고 갈 수 있는 <구조적 제노사이드>의 전형을 보여준다. 이는 스모트리히가 내세우는 <자발적 이주>가 실제로는 삶의 기반을 완전히 파괴하여 떠날 수밖에 없도록 만드는 잔인한 강요이자 민족 청소의 또 다른 형태임을 증명한다.
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10·7 이후 공존 담론의 종말과 국제사회의 위선
메론 라포포트의 분석은 2023년 10월 7일 이후 이스라엘 사회가 겪은 거대한 인식의 전환을 날카롭게 포착한다. 과거 이스라엘 온건파와 서구 사회가 신봉하던 <분쟁 관리(conflict management)>와 <두 국가 해법>의 허구성이 하마스의 공격으로 완전히 무너지자, 이스라엘 대중은 평화적 협상이 아닌 스모트리히식의 <총체적 승리>, 즉 상대방의 완전한 절멸을 유일한 대안으로 수용하게 되었다. 스모트리히 개인의 정치적 인기는 낮을지언정 그의 광기 어린 신학적·정치적 비전이 이스라엘 국가 전체의 공식 노선으로 승리했다는 진단은 비극적이지만 현실적이다.
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마지막으로 피터 오본이 제기한 서구 사회의 이중잣대에 대한 비판은 국제 정치의 뼈아픈 위선을 폭로한다. 수천 명의 팔레스타인인이 고문당하고 살해당할 때는 <외교적 우려>에 그치던 서방 지도자들이 백인 구호 활동가들의 구금 영상 하나에 대거 분노하는 모습은, 국제법과 인권 담론이 여전히 인종주의적 위계질서 위에서 작동하고 있음을 여실히 보여준다.
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결론적으로 이 스크립트는 베잘렐 스모트리히라는 개인이 아니라, 극우 연정을 통제하지 못하고 방조하는 네타냐후 체제, 그리고 이를 묵인하는 이스라엘 대중과 서방 정부들이 어떻게 거대한 인류연대적 파국을 함께 합작하고 있는지를 경고하는 엄중한 보고서이다.
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<베잘렐 스모트리치(Bezalel Smotrich)는 누구인가?>라는 이 인터뷰/해설 자료는 단순한 인물 소개가 아니다. 그것은 현재 이스라엘 정치, 특히 서안지구(West Bank) 정책이 어떤 사상적 방향으로 이동하고 있는지를 보여주는 정치적·이념적 진단문에 가깝다.
이 자료의 핵심은 다음 질문에 집중된다.
→ <왜 국제사회가 극단주의자로 보는 인물이 오늘날 이스라엘 권력 중심에 들어가게 되었는가?>
그리고 더 나아가:
→ <이것은 일시적 현상인가, 아니면 이스라엘 사회 내부의 구조적 변화인가?>
인터뷰는 주로 세 인물의 발언을 중심으로 전개된다.
팔레스타인 정치인 무스타파 바르구티(Mustafa Barghouti)
이스라엘 언론인 메론 라포포트(Meron Rapoport)
현장을 방문한 활동가 Peter Oborne
이들은 모두 스모트리치를 단순한 “극우 정치인”이 아니라, 이스라엘 국가 구조를 장기적으로 재편하려는 이념 정치인으로 묘사한다.
가장 충격적인 부분은 스모트리치 본인의 자기 규정이다.
자료는 그를 “self-described messianic fascist(스스로를 메시아적 파시스트라고 표현한 인물)”로 소개한다.
물론 이 표현은 논쟁적이다. 하지만 인터뷰 참여자들은 그의 정책과 언행이 단순한 과격 발언 수준을 넘어서 실제 국가 정책으로 구현되고 있다고 주장한다.
핵심적으로 제기되는 문제는 세 가지다.
1] 서안지구 실질 병합
2] 팔레스타인 주민 축출
3] 종교 민족주의의 국가화
인터뷰에 따르면 스모트리치는 단순 재무장관이 아니다. 그는 국방부 내 특정 권한까지 장악하며 서안지구 행정에 사실상 직접 영향력을 행사한다.
이 점이 중요하다.
왜냐하면 과거 이스라엘 극우는 주변부 운동으로 여겨졌지만, 지금은 국가 관료 구조 안으로 들어왔기 때문이다.
메론 라포포트는 이것을 “de facto annexation(사실상의 병합)”이라고 설명한다.
즉 법적으로는 병합을 선언하지 않아도:
정착촌 확대
도로와 인프라 통합
군정과 민정 재편
팔레스타인 경제 통제
를 통해 이미 현실적 병합이 진행 중이라는 주장이다.
인터뷰에서 반복적으로 등장하는 단어는 “ethnic cleansing(인종 청소)”이다.
특히 팔레스타인 측 인터뷰이는 스모트리치가 주장하는 “자발적 이주(voluntary migration)”라는 표현 자체가 사실상 강제 축출을 미화하는 언어라고 비판한다.
그들은 다음과 같은 현실을 설명한다.
정착민 폭력
마을 공격
차량 방화
농지 접근 차단
검문소 증가
경제 봉쇄
이런 압박을 통해 주민들이 떠날 수밖에 없는 조건이 만들어진다는 것이다.
여기서 중요한 것은 이 인터뷰가 단순히 “이스라엘 vs 팔레스타인”이라는 도덕적 대립만을 말하지 않는다는 점이다.
오히려 더 핵심적인 문제는:
→ <국가 권력이 종교적 메시아주의와 결합할 때 어떤 일이 벌어지는가?>
라는 구조적 질문이다.
스모트리치는 종교 시온주의(Religious Zionism) 계열 정치인이다. 인터뷰는 그의 세계관이 단순 보수주의가 아니라 “신이 유대인에게 준 땅”이라는 종교적 확신 위에 놓여 있다고 설명한다.
따라서 협상이나 타협은 단순 정치 문제가 아니라 “신의 뜻에 대한 배신”처럼 여겨질 수 있다.
이 점에서 인터뷰는 현재 이스라엘 정치가 세속 민족주의에서 종교 민족주의로 이동하고 있다고 본다.
이것은 매우 중요한 변화다.
초기 시온주의 지도자들 상당수는 세속주의자였다. 그러나 오늘날 일부 강경 세력은 성경적 약속을 영토 정책의 근거로 사용한다.
이 자료는 특히 2023년 이후 상황이 급속히 악화되었다고 본다. 정착민 폭력 증가와 군·정착민 협력 의혹도 반복적으로 언급된다.
또 하나 중요한 부분은 국제사회의 반응이다.
국제형사재판소(ICC)의 체포영장 추진 가능성이 언급되자 스모트리치가 보복을 주장했다는 내용이 나온다.
인터뷰 참여자들은 국제사회 대응이 지나치게 약하다고 비판한다.
하지만 동시에 흥미로운 점은, 이 자료가 단순히 “세계가 침묵한다”는 주장만 하지 않는다는 것이다.
오히려 최근 유럽 일부 국가와 국제 여론 변화에 주목한다.
스페인
남아공
브라질
콜롬비아
등이 상대적으로 강한 비판을 하고 있다고 언급된다.
또 이스라엘 내부에서도 균열이 있다는 분석이 나온다.
메론 라포포트는 스모트리치가 대중적으로 압도적 인기를 가진 인물은 아니라고 말한다.
하지만 연립정치 구조 속에서 작은 극우 정당이 과도한 영향력을 행사할 수 있다는 것이다.
이 분석은 상당히 설득력이 있다.
실제로 많은 의회제 국가에서 소수 극단 세력이 연정의 “캐스팅 보트” 역할을 하면서 disproportionate influence(불균형적 영향력)를 행사하는 경우가 있다.
자료 후반부의 가장 인상적인 부분은 서안지구 현장 묘사다.
Peter Oborne은 과거보다 훨씬 조직적이고 군사화된 정착민 분위기를 설명한다.
그는 특히:
무장 정착민 증가
팔레스타인 마을 주변 초소(outposts)
지속적 위협
일상적 폭력
을 강조한다.
이 부분은 단순 정치 토론보다 현장 르포에 가깝다.
다만 이 자료의 한계도 분명하다.
첫째, 매우 비판적 관점에 치우쳐 있다.
스모트리치 본인이나 그의 지지자들의 논리가 충분히 길게 제시되지는 않는다. 예를 들어:
안보 위협 인식
10월 7일 이후의 충격
하마스 문제
팔레스타인 무장세력 공격
등은 상대적으로 제한적으로 다뤄진다.
따라서 이 자료만 보면 이스라엘 내부의 공포 심리와 안보 담론은 충분히 이해하기 어렵다.
둘째, “파시즘”이라는 표현 사용은 설명적이라기보다 규정적 성격이 강하다.
일부 독자에게는 강한 도덕적 설득력을 줄 수 있지만, 다른 독자에게는 정치적 선전처럼 들릴 위험도 있다.
셋째, 인터뷰 전체가 MEE(Middle East Eye)라는 비교적 친팔레스타인 성향 매체의 문제의식 위에 구성되어 있다는 점도 고려해야 한다.
그러나 그렇다고 해서 자료 전체를 단순 선전으로 치부하기는 어렵다.
왜냐하면 실제로:
정착촌 확대
서안지구 행정 변화
극우 종교정당 영향력 증가
는 국제적으로도 널리 보고되는 현상이기 때문이다.
전체적으로 이 자료는 단순한 인물 소개를 넘어:
→ <이스라엘 국가 정체성이 어디로 이동하고 있는가?>
라는 질문을 던진다.
그리고 더 넓게 보면 이것은 현대 세계 곳곳에서 나타나는 현상과 연결된다.
힌두 민족주의
미국 백인 복음주의 정치화
이슬람주의 국가주의
불교 민족주의
처럼,
→ <종교 + 민족주의 + 피해의식 + 안보 불안>
이 결합할 때 민주주의와 인권이 어떻게 흔들릴 수 있는가를 보여주는 사례로 읽을 수도 있다.
결국 이 인터뷰의 가장 중요한 메시지는 이것이다.
→ 극단주의는 갑자기 등장하지 않는다.
→ 그것은 오랜 두려움, 기억, 종교, 정착 구조, 전쟁 경험 속에서 점진적으로 정상화된다.
그리고 스모트리치는, 이 자료의 관점에서는, 바로 그 정상화의 상징적 인물로 제시된다.
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Transcript
0:00When ME broke the story that the International Criminal Court was seeking the arrest of finance minister Betsel
0:066 secondsSmotrich, it broke across the mainstream media and got the attention of the minister himself. Facing potential
0:1414 secondscharges of force displacement, persecution and apartheid. Smotrich responded petulently, pledging to retaliate not against the court, but
0:2222 secondsagainst the very Palestinians he's accused of violating. Smart Rich exercises extraordinary power in Israel as well as minister of finance. He has a
0:3131 secondsportfolio in the defense ministry that gives him de facto control in the West Bank where he has already ordered the eviction of a Bedawin village as part of
0:3939 secondshis retaliation. Palestinian diplomats have been urging the ICC to act against him for years. Me revealed the
0:4646 secondsprosecutor's office secretly applied for his arrest warrant in April. The ICC has not publicly confirmed this, but under
0:5353 secondscourt regulations, warrant applications are classified until approved. The process typically takes several months, but if accepted, it would be the first
1:021 minute, 2 secondsever warrant issued by an international court for the crime of apartheid. It would also make Smottrich the third
1:091 minute, 9 secondsIsraeli official wanted by the court along with Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former defense minister Yof Galant. Smottrich has called the move a declaration of war.
1:201 minute, 20 secondsToday we'll show you the man behind the minister. Who is Betsel Smotrich and how has his radical rise to power affected
1:281 minute, 28 secondsPalestinians and Israelis. First, Palestinians. I'm joined by Palestinian physician and politician Mustapa
1:351 minute, 35 secondsBalguti. Mustapa, welcome back to ME Live. Now, Smottri has responded to the ICC by retaliating against Palestinians.
1:441 minute, 44 secondsSo I have to ask, is this international community action actually helpful to the victims of his alleged war crimes?
1:541 minute, 54 secondsOf course, it's very helpful because finally somebody is holding this fascist and the government of Israel
2:042 minutes, 4 secondsaccountable. The problem we faced is that their crimes have been doubling and increasing every day
2:122 minutes, 12 secondsbecause they don't feel any accountability to international law and they don't feel that they will pay for
2:222 minutes, 22 secondsthe crimes they are committing. So this kind of decision which of course aggravated
2:282 minutes, 28 secondshuge anger among Snotrich and his supporters is a is a very first step.
2:362 minutes, 36 secondsBut if you think that because of that decision they would do something bad they are already doing so many bad
2:442 minutes, 44 secondsthings. They are already smri personally has been responsible for the unprecedented level of expansion of settlements. He has funded settlements.
2:572 minutes, 57 secondsHe made he was behind decisions in several by the government and uh
3:043 minutes, 4 secondsseveral other laws to change the whole nature of the land and to allow expansion of settlements at a rate that is unprecedented.
3:143 minutes, 14 secondsThe man is absolutely fanatic and he believes there is no place not only for a Palestinian state but for Palestinians in general on the land of Palestine.
3:253 minutes, 25 secondsIndeed, his rationale for retaliating against Palestinians, has been to call this application for an arrest warrant a declaration of war by the Palestinian
3:333 minutes, 33 secondsAuthority, who he says engaged with the ICC to provide evidence. Is that something you care to respond to?
3:433 minutes, 43 secondsWell, if we don't turn to international law and to international institutions, then where whom should we turn to? Uh
3:523 minutes, 52 secondsthis they they they deny Palestinians the right to struggle in every possible world. where they deni
4:004 minutesalthough international law says that Palestinians have the right to struggle against occupation and apartheide and
4:074 minutes, 7 secondspersecution and oppression on all possible methods. So Israel is against military of course resistance. They are against popular nonviolent resistance.
4:204 minutes, 20 secondsThey are against Palestinians trying to go to international courts and demand justice from international institutions
4:284 minutes, 28 secondsand international law. They are against Palestinians even expressing their needs and expressing their views. So what you
4:374 minutes, 37 secondsare talking about is an entity, a Zionist entity that wants to kill all kinds of Palestinian resistance so that
4:464 minutes, 46 secondsit can fulfill its dreams. Now let's and their dream is not only land appropriation
4:534 minutes, 53 secondsbut also the total ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
4:564 minutes, 56 secondsLet's just break down what that looks like in practice specifically under Smartrich and Smartrich's impact on Palestinian life up to now. The warrant
5:045 minutes, 4 secondsapplication claims that he's committed forced displacement, persecution, apartheid. Um, one thing that Smatri
5:125 minutes, 12 secondsrepeatedly advocates for is what he calls the voluntary migration of Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank. This phrase does a lot of heavy
5:205 minutes, 20 secondslifting. What does it look like in reality?
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsFirst of all, he's using the word voluntary to cover up the crime. What does voluntary mean? when his settler
5:335 minutes, 33 secondsgangs, the gangs who are terrorists, who are described as terrorists even by some Israeli sources, when these guys
5:435 minutes, 43 secondscome to Palestinian communities, especially between communities, approved their trees,
5:515 minutes, 51 secondsuh burn their houses, burn their uh cars, uh then force them, beat them so badly
6:006 minutesand sometimes shoot them to death as they have done to 12 people and then force them by buy by by buy by guns to
6:096 minutes, 9 secondsleave their communities. And this is so well recorded. This is so well documented.
6:156 minutes, 15 seconds71 Palestinian communities so far undermine
6:246 minutes, 24 secondsgangs and some of these communities were evicted more than once.
6:296 minutes, 29 secondsThe Israeli government with Smish being a finance minister in it have already evicted 40,000 Palestinian refugees who
6:396 minutes, 39 secondswere originally evicted in 1948 from their land. They evicted them again from the refugee camps of Tulkar Janine and
6:486 minutes, 48 secondsthe Nurams after destroying these three camps and they forced them by force to be evicted.
6:576 minutes, 57 secondsSo what kind of voluntary ethnic cleansing is here? We are talking about genocide that was committed in
7:057 minutes, 5 secondsGaza which ended up killing 12% of the population and injuring 12% of the population of Gaza, more than 250,000
7:147 minutes, 14 secondspeople. Apply 12% to any country. Apply it to the United States and you would be talking about 36 million Americans
7:227 minutes, 22 secondsinjured or killed in the course of two years. This is the level of crime that is committed against Palestinians. And
7:307 minutes, 30 secondsnot only that, Smrich is strangulating Palestinians economically.
7:347 minutes, 34 secondsYes, I was going to point out he's he's he's Yeah, he is also finance minister as well as exercising this power over the West Bank. That gives him the means
7:437 minutes, 43 secondsto wage economic war as well as territorial war. He seized money from the Palestinian Authority, blocked funds
7:507 minutes, 50 secondsfor Palestinian worker visas. How devastating have his economic policies been for Palestinians?
7:587 minutes, 58 secondsIt has been disastrous because he first of all confiscated 5.3 mill 5.3 billion
8:068 minutes, 6 secondsbillion dollars from Palestinian from Palestinian tax revenue leaving the authority completely crippled incapable of paying the salaries of its employees.
8:178 minutes, 17 secondsincapable of being the paying the salaries of doctors, nurses and uh uh incapable of buying medications for the
8:248 minutes, 24 secondssick people. Now we have cancer patients in in in Palestine without treatment because the Palestinian authority cannot
8:338 minutes, 33 secondsbuy this treatment. Uh I know that personally because my wife is one of them and uh they they have also kicked
8:428 minutes, 42 secondsout from their jobs 250,000 workers creating a very huge problem of unemployment
8:508 minutes, 50 secondsand add to that the fact that 1,300 military checkpoints in the West Bank block completely the freedom of
8:598 minutes, 59 secondsmovement, block completely the possibility of economic activity or trade.
9:059 minutes, 5 secondsAnd in addition to that, 250 gates besiege many communities,
9:129 minutes, 12 secondstransforming them into small presence from time to time.
9:179 minutes, 17 secondsThat is very clear. And add to that the fact that Israel is strangulating Gaza with this terrible siege where people
9:269 minutes, 26 secondsare deprived from humanitarian assistance.
9:299 minutes, 29 secondsNow, this is not a man who wants resolution with Palestinians. Smart twitchrich is very clear about that himself. He argues that West Bank Arabs
9:369 minutes, 36 secondshave three possible responses to the current situation except the status of being Israel's subjects. Immigrate or
9:449 minutes, 44 secondsresist violently and be punished by Israel's military. There is no room in his ideological vision for Palestinian
9:529 minutes, 52 secondsstatethood. With a man like Smutri in the cabinet, do you still believe resolution is possible?
10:0010 minutesLook, when he says Palestinians have to accept to be subjects of Israel means slaves of Israel, this is the this man
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondsrepresents the worst formula of apartheid.
10:1310 minutes, 13 secondsAnd uh what he actually means is that Palestinians have two options only.
10:2010 minutes, 20 secondsEither to die or be ethnically cleansed.
10:2510 minutes, 25 secondsThere is no other option. And uh uh When he does that, he's not doing it alone.
10:3110 minutes, 31 secondsHe's doing it with Bing. He's doing it with Netanyahu. This is the official Israeli policy. Practically since more
10:4010 minutes, 40 secondsthan maybe 15 years or more, the Israeli establishment
10:4610 minutes, 46 secondsand the Zionist movement has sent only one message to Palestinians and to the world, which is that they have no place
10:5510 minutes, 55 secondsfor any compromise with the Palestinians.
10:5810 minutes, 58 secondsThe Oslo horrible agreement was about a possibility of a compromise. They killed it. The whole idea of two-state solution
11:0811 minutes, 8 secondswhich was sort of imposed on Palestinians and they accepted it with great pain because it meant that they
11:1511 minutes, 15 secondswould accept a state in only 22% of the land while the UN gave Palestinians 44% of the land at a time when Palestinians
11:2411 minutes, 24 secondsowned 93% of the land. Regardless of this big concession from the Palestinian side, Netanyahu and Pingvir and Smrich
11:3411 minutes, 34 secondsare saying no, no place for any inch for Palestinians. So, Israel long time ago
11:4211 minutes, 42 secondshas decided that there is no possibility for a compromise between them and the Palestinians. So, that illusion is over.
11:5011 minutes, 50 secondsAnd those who still believe in that illusion are people who are trying to serve their own personal interest at the expense of the interest of their people.
11:5911 minutes, 59 secondsNow you mentioned Benavir there, another of Netanyahu's ultraist part partners.
12:0512 minutes, 5 secondsBengavir has just drawn rare public criticism from Netanyahu after airing a video parading the maltreatment of
12:1212 minutes, 12 secondsinternational flatillaa activists in Israeli detention. I'm not sure if you've seen this video. It's also caused widespread condemnation from world
12:2012 minutes, 20 secondsleaders and diplomats including Italy, France, Canada, even the US. I wonder, were you surprised to see such a strong
12:2812 minutes, 28 secondsglobal reaction to Ben's latest stunt?
12:3512 minutes, 35 secondsNo, I wasn't surprised. I am still surprised that the reaction is only condemnations and calling the Israeli
12:4312 minutes, 43 secondsambassadors to protest and no actual sanctions have been imposed yet. That's what surprises me.
12:5312 minutes, 53 secondsAnd in reality, by the way, Netanyahu did not criticize the act. He criticized
13:0013 minutesthe fact that Bing exposed the terrible oppression of these Solidarity people
13:0813 minutes, 8 secondspublicly and he did not before protest against the same fascist Bing Vir showing videos
13:1813 minutes, 18 secondsof him persecuting Palestinian prisoners. That didn't that didn't
13:2413 minutes, 24 secondsbother Natanyao. Nata was bothered only because the victims were foreign entity, foreign people, which could of course
13:3413 minutes, 34 secondshelp bring the right image about what Israel is and that's why he criticized him. But Netanyahu is a liar and his
13:4213 minutes, 42 secondsforeign minister Gdons is also a liar when they say they don't agree with this because if they if this had happened in
13:4913 minutes, 49 secondsany other country, this minister Bingir will be dismissed immediately.
13:5613 minutes, 56 secondsAnd Netanyahu could dismiss him, but he wouldn't because Netanyahu approves the act approves the act of calling
14:0514 minutes, 5 secondsnonviolent peaceful people coming to help Palestinians by just trying to show how terrible the siege is on Gaza.
14:1614 minutes, 16 secondsHe's calling them terrorists. He's calling them supporters of terrorists.
14:2114 minutes, 21 secondsAnd by which law the Israeli Navy under Netanyahu has the right to commit piracy
14:2914 minutes, 29 secondsby kidnapping the people in their ships in international waters. Israel has no right whatsoever to arrest anybody in
14:3714 minutes, 37 secondsinternational waters. So they violated the international law. They vi violated the the laws of the sea. They violated
14:4714 minutes, 47 secondsthe human rights of these people and then they oppressed them and persecuted them and then they took a video humiliating them and showed it to the
14:5614 minutes, 56 secondsworld. In my opinion, the reaction of the world is still minimal. What the world should do is to immediately impose
15:0315 minutes, 3 secondssanctions on this Israeli government and the European Union in particular should stop abstaining from cancelling the
15:1215 minutes, 12 secondsassociation agreement with Israel. This is the least they can do. And by the way, that applies to Arab countries as
15:2015 minutes, 20 secondswell who should not have any relations with Israel when it is committing these terrible war crimes and who should not
15:2815 minutes, 28 secondscontinue to have ambassadors of Israel in their country and who should not have any kind of normalization with Israel
15:3615 minutes, 36 secondswhile it is committing genocide and other crimes against Palestinian people and now against people from different countries in solidarity with Palestine.
15:4615 minutes, 46 secondsThe main countries that really took serious decisions are Spain, Ireland, Slovenia, South Africa,
15:5415 minutes, 54 secondsBrazil, uh, and and Colombia. Uh, I maybe there are some others, but these are the main
16:0116 minutes, 1 secondcountries that took actual sanctions activities, including military embargo on Israel.
16:0816 minutes, 8 secondsMustaper Bargoti, thank you for your time. Betelottri, a little bit about him. This man was
16:1516 minutes, 15 secondsborn in the Israeli annexed Golden Heights, which was and is not recognized internationally. The son of a rabbi who
16:2316 minutes, 23 secondspreached Jews in inane right to the land. His identity has been rooted in contested territory since birth. He's a
16:3016 minutes, 30 secondsself-declared fascist homophobe who has called for Torah law to govern the Israeli state and for maternity wards to
16:3816 minutes, 38 secondsbe segregated between Jewish and Arab mothers. He's also a settler living in the Kajumim settlement of the occupied
16:4516 minutes, 45 secondsWest Bank, which is illegal under international law. All Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law, according to a
16:5316 minutes, 53 secondsruling by the International Court of Justice. in 2024. In 2022, Netanyahu formed the most right-wing government in
17:0117 minutes, 1 secondIsrael's history, brokering a coalition with Smott's Religious Zionism Party and Itar Bengavir's Jewish Power Party in a
17:0917 minutes, 9 secondsbid to stay in power. While they account for a minority of Netanyahu's support, they carry outsized influence because if
17:1617 minutes, 16 secondsthey quit, which they both repeatedly threaten to do, the government will fall. Smart Rich has used this to extract extraordinary concessions from
17:2517 minutes, 25 secondsthe deal. Netanyahu made him Israel's finance minister, already head of one of the most powerful departments as well as a min ministerial position within the
17:3417 minutes, 34 secondsMinistry of Defense. This makes him de facto governor of the occupied West Bank. Through this mandate, he oversees West Bank land management, settlement
17:4217 minutes, 42 secondsplanning, and infrastructure. And as finance minister, he is free to allocate the vast resources required to put his plan into action. In other words, Smott
17:5217 minutes, 52 secondsholds extreme power. Here's how he uses it.
18:0518 minutes, 5 secondsfor
18:3318 minutes, 33 secondsthe phone.
18:4618 minutes, 46 secondsOh,
19:0219 minutes, 2 secondsSmart Church's rise to power arguably marks a transformation in Israeli politics with the normalization of the
19:0919 minutes, 9 secondssettler project. Here to discuss whether he's fighting or turning the tide is Israeli journalist Miron Rapaort. Miron,
19:1719 minutes, 17 secondswelcome to ME live. Smart Rich has mainstreamed settler politics using his power to execute his decisive plan to
19:2519 minutes, 25 secondsannex the West Bank. But he used to be marginalized for his hardline views. He was arrested in 2005 for protesting
19:3319 minutes, 33 secondsIsrael's withdrawal from Gaza. Is he still part of the fringes? How representative is his approach to
19:4019 minutes, 40 secondsPalestine of the wider Israeli population today? His moderate in himself is not popular.
19:5019 minutes, 50 secondsUh his party in the polls and as you know we will have election in 3 months or four months uh time.
20:0020 minutesuh his uh po his party the Zionist uh national Zionist party is on sometimes
20:0820 minutes, 8 secondsit's out sometimes it's in you need uh three and a half% in order to get to the to the parliament
20:1720 minutes, 17 secondsuh and in most the polls he's out so he's not popular uh I would say that uh
20:2420 minutes, 24 secondsin the protest uh the huge protest uh In 2023
20:3120 minutes, 31 secondsbefore the war uh against the judicial overall, Smidge was seen uh by the
20:3820 minutes, 38 secondsprotesters as as a as a as a as as a villain, as a threat, as the one behind
20:4720 minutes, 47 secondstrying to overturn uh the Israeli democracy according to the uh protesters. Of course the vision of what is democracy is is another discussion.
20:5820 minutes, 58 secondsSo he's not popular in himself but yes I think he is very he knows his work very well. He seems to be very consequential.
21:1221 minutes, 12 secondsuh he took uh position uh as you said in the ministry of defense really the SAR
21:2221 minutes, 22 secondsof the West Bank and he is using it uh to the to the extreme. He nominated uh
21:3121 minutes, 31 secondshis own people in all section uh in the military um in the what is called the
21:3921 minutes, 39 secondscivil administration in the west bank uh and in other parts of the government. He
21:4521 minutes, 45 secondsis uh pushing uh all kind of reforms that practically
21:5221 minutes, 52 secondsuh means uh a de facto uh annexation of the West Bank. He announced the the
22:0122 minutes, 1 secondbuilding or the intention to build more than 100 settlements during this uh three and a half years in power is very
22:1122 minutes, 11 secondsvery consequential. I think he's public uh um appreciates him very much uh and
22:2122 minutes, 21 secondsuh but he's not popular. At the same time, he is what happened after October 7th is
22:2822 minutes, 28 secondsthat the moment that uh October 7th really crushed the idea that uh there is uh that Israel can manage the conflict.
22:3922 minutes, 39 secondsThat was Netanyahu's philosophy and even the center left philosophy for for many years that
22:4622 minutes, 46 secondsIsrael can manage the conflict. In October 7 in the moment that the wall
22:5222 minutes, 52 secondsaround Gaza fell uh also it was the end of the idea of managing the conflict. At
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondsthis moment we had two option. one is to go for a negotiated deal with the Palestinian, but that unfortunately is
23:1123 minutes, 11 secondsout of the question in the Israeli narrative for more than 20 years. Uh not only because of Smootic, also because of
23:1823 minutes, 18 secondsErd Barak and other leaders of the left and then we were left. If there's no managing the conflict and there's no
23:2523 minutes, 25 secondssolution to the conflict, the only way is to have a total victory as the plan
23:3423 minutes, 34 secondsthat Smatz himself uh published in 2018 if I'm not uh uh mistaken.
23:4123 minutes, 41 secondsum portraying the way that the only that the only solution is uh either a
23:4923 minutes, 49 secondsfullblown apartheide where Palestinian accepts to be secondass uh uh citizens or resident in between the river and the
23:5823 minutes, 58 secondssea and if they don't accept it they have to be uh uh chased away uh they have to be transferred uh from uh from
24:0824 minutes, 8 secondsuh between the river and the sea. Would you would you say that that that position you've just described that post October 7th you know final victory um
24:1624 minutes, 16 secondsbeing the only option would you say that that is a a rationale that is held by a majority of Israelis then today is SM I
24:2424 minutes, 24 secondsguess is SMR rich like an agent of radicalization in Israel or is he just a consequence of it
24:3224 minutes, 32 secondsI think both but uh but yes I think he's an agent he's an agent because he's a very intelligent man And because he's
24:4024 minutes, 40 secondsvery he has a very sound politics in the sense that he knows exactly uh what he's
24:4624 minutes, 46 secondsdoing and he knows to connect what he's saying and what he's doing. Uh I think
24:5424 minutes, 54 secondsyes his option although he himself was not popular, although he himself is
25:0125 minutes, 1 secondconsidered a mess too messic by many Israelis maybe by the majority of Israelis. the option he
25:1025 minutes, 10 secondspresented after October 7, the option of decisive victory, meaning the elimination practically of the
25:1925 minutes, 19 secondsPalestinian from this territory between the river and the sea. Uh yes, I think his philosophy
25:2725 minutes, 27 secondsuh won. he himself may be out of the Knesset out of the parliament in in in
25:3325 minutes, 33 secondsin five or uh six months maybe will be out of parliament but I think he made a
25:4125 minutes, 41 secondsmark uh that will not be uh deleted for many many years in Israel and it's interesting because even when you
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondsdescribe the prominence of that viewpoint it is very shielded from western audiences western media generally don't broadcast the most
25:5525 minutes, 55 secondsextreme statements made by ministers like Bengavir and Betsel Smartridge.
26:0026 minutesWe've just watched some of those. But often in English-speaking or or Western, you know, non-Hebrew channels, Israeli
26:0826 minutes, 8 secondsambassadors deliver very censored versions that are more palatable, I suppose, with Western world views. Um, I
26:1526 minutes, 15 secondsthink SMTRI and Bengavir often make it very difficult, however, and increasingly we've seen negative PR drawn to Israel because of their
26:2326 minutes, 23 secondsactions. I mean, not least today we're seeing the fallout of Bengavir's video with the flatillaa activists. Do Israelis worry about these ministers
26:3326 minutes, 33 secondsimpact on their international reputation?
26:3826 minutes, 38 secondsYes, this uh uh uh this is maybe the one thing while uh opposing
26:4526 minutes, 45 secondsuh the the genocide in Gaza was of course a very tiny minority and opposing
26:5226 minutes, 52 secondsthe war in Iran was also a quite tiny minority and opposing the war and Lebanon is a tiny minority. the
26:5926 minutes, 59 secondsconsequences of the damage to the PR let's say of Israel uh with videos like
27:0927 minutes, 9 secondsuh one that uh those we have seen in Bangville with with the flotillaa with with the uh passenger from the
27:1727 minutes, 17 secondsflotillaa. Uh this is something that the large Israeli public does understand
27:2327 minutes, 23 secondsthat the mainstream media do criticize um quite harshly um and uh yes they are
27:3227 minutes, 32 secondsaware. I think Israelis live in a little bit of a strange situation in which on on the one hand they say it's only us
27:4027 minutes, 40 secondsthat we will decide our our future. The world does not count. uh it's not important what the the the [ __ ] what the
27:4927 minutes, 49 secondsthe the gentiles will say that's not important that's an heritage all already from Benorian time uh that's on the one
27:5827 minutes, 58 secondshand on the other hand Israelis do feel part of the west Israel do feel part of Europe Israel do Israelis do feel that
28:0728 minutes, 7 secondsthey are let's say the bastion of western civilization in the Middle East and if you know the this western
28:1628 minutes, 16 secondscivilization sees us in such a bad light. This is something that Israel is do not like to see themselves. Not to
28:2528 minutes, 25 secondsspeak of course of more uh uh uh practical consequences like silent
28:3228 minutes, 32 secondsboycott or uh even a more uh uh powerful uh sanctions that may be on the way.
28:4028 minutes, 40 secondsYeah. And and how about Netanyahu? I mean in response to this um Benvere incident Netanyahu has publicly criticized the national security
28:4928 minutes, 49 secondsminister this is actually a pretty rare move but it hasn't gone further than that as of yet you know Ben is unlikely
28:5628 minutes, 56 secondsto face any harsher discipline but Netanyahu is dealing with quite a significant diplomatic fallout. Does does this test his patience? Um and if
29:0429 minutes, 4 secondsso how far does his patience with these hardline ministers go?
29:1029 minutes, 10 secondsI think in the last three and a half years uh the difference uh between uh Bengri
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondsand Netanyahu is has become quite minimal uh uh if
29:2629 minutes, 26 secondsbefore uh the war and before the last government before this uh current government still Netanyahu represented
29:3529 minutes, 35 secondssome kind of a very right wing but still let's say rational or uh takes into
29:4329 minutes, 43 secondsaccount the international public opinion, the international arena. Uh uh
29:5029 minutes, 50 secondsnow the difference has almost uh disappeared. Uh what happened now I think uh there are two things. First,
29:5929 minutes, 59 secondsyou know, the fallout is really very harsh and it comes for example just a few days after the Eurovision contest in
30:0730 minutes, 7 secondswhich Israel in invested a lot of effort and maybe even a lot of money in order
30:1430 minutes, 14 secondsto whitewash its its its image uh in front of of European uh public and then
30:2330 minutes, 23 secondscomes something like this uh that really destroys everything that Israel tried to build as it is a a liberal state that
30:3030 minutes, 30 secondssends very nice song to this competition. Um and secondly we are in
30:3630 minutes, 36 secondstime of election. Um the the main rival of Netanyahu now is uh is uh uh Bennett
30:4630 minutes, 46 secondswho is very rightwing but still tries to be a more constitutional right let's say
30:5430 minutes, 54 secondsmoderate right one who respect the rules respect the Supreme Court uh very
31:0031 minutesrightwing against Palestinian state etc but and with the settlements but uh but
31:0831 minutes, 8 secondsuh but respect the rules and Netanyahu maybe is afraid that some of his voters
31:1531 minutes, 15 secondsfrom the LI could leave him and go to Bennett because he is still rightwing
31:2331 minutes, 23 secondsbut more let's say decent uh and therefore he might this may explain why
31:3131 minutes, 31 secondsuh foreign minister Giddon Sar and after him Benjamin Netanyahu uh criticized uh
31:4131 minutes, 41 secondsBangor in order to show the Israeli public, listen, we are not that extremist. We are still reasonable. We
31:4931 minutes, 49 secondsdo think about the the international arena. We do think about international we have diplomacy, not only war, not only humiliation.
31:5931 minutes, 59 secondsUh and of course, same goes for Bango.
32:0232 minutes, 2 secondsHe did it also in order to show the Israeli electorate, especially the right-wing electorate, that he is the
32:1132 minutes, 11 secondsreal right wing. That you cannot trust uh uh Netanyahu that he's soft, that he
32:1932 minutes, 19 secondsis uh um surrendering to to Trump. Uh and I am tough. I don't care what the world say.
32:3032 minutes, 30 secondsI care only about am people of Israel live and uh that's also part of the election.
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondsI'm going to have to wrap you there.
32:4032 minutes, 40 secondsMiran Raaport, thank you so much for your time. Betal Smrich said on Tuesday that he had ordered the eviction of a West Bank hamlet after learning about
32:4932 minutes, 49 secondsthe IC warrant arrest request. The hamlet in question is a small Bedawin village called Khan al Ahma east of
32:5732 minutes, 57 secondsJerusalem and its population has been estimated at roughly 150 people.
33:0133 minutes, 1 secondRight-wing Israeli leaders have long called to raise the town and expel its residents to make room for the expansion of Jewish settlements. Under Sumatri,
33:1033 minutes, 10 secondsthe West Bank has become the latest battleground of Israel's genocidal campaign towards Palestinians. expansion is sanctioned by the government and
33:1733 minutes, 17 secondsexecuted by settlers who act with impunity and often direct support from the occupying Israeli army. On me on
33:2633 minutes, 26 secondsME's show ONO unscripted, Peter Oon traveled to Sebastia last month. Israeli settlers here backed by the army are
33:3333 minutes, 33 secondsexpanding control over land, restricting access to farms, and reshaping the town's identity. Locals describe rising
33:4033 minutes, 40 secondsviolence, land seizures, and a collapse in tourism alongside growing fears that their presence is being steadily erased.
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondsFor many, what's happening today echoes 1948. And I'm joined now in the studio by Peter Oorn to share what he witnessed and react to the latest developments.
33:5733 minutes, 57 secondsPeter, welcome to ME Live. You were just in the West Bank. When were you there prior to that visit and did you notice
34:0434 minutes, 4 secondsany changes in between? Yeah, I've been going to the West Bank now for quite a long time, many years. Uh, and um quite
34:1134 minutes, 11 secondsextended trips often like I spent three months in Nablas before October the 7th for instance. It's a completely
34:2034 minutes, 20 secondsdifferent uh place now since October 7th.
34:2434 minutes, 24 secondsNo, it's the difference is and I think it's important to explain this that the big difference is is not October the 7th. It's the coalition agreement
34:3334 minutes, 33 secondsbetween uh Netanyahu and the farright religious parties and and Benavier which
34:4034 minutes, 40 secondswas struck immediately uh right at the start of um 2023. Mhm.
34:4734 minutes, 47 secondsUm and this was historic and hugely an illegal deal under international law.
34:5334 minutes, 53 secondsBasically the West Bank is an occup is occupied and real recognized as such by Israel.
35:0135 minutes, 1 secondHence it is governed by the military and under international law it should be governed in the interest of the people who are occupied. And so the military
35:0835 minutes, 8 secondsalways had a duty not that they carried it out very well but there was in theory an obligation to look out after the
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondsinterests of the people. right now once it was as part of the coalition agreement it was handed over
35:2635 minutes, 26 secondsum taken away from the military and given to Smothric and he was as the and he
35:3435 minutes, 34 secondsthey created a new body the settlement administration form to run it and so
35:4035 minutes, 40 secondsit's now run by civilian politicians who do not have the interest at all of the Palestinians
35:4835 minutes, 48 secondsIn fact, Smott is only answerable in effect to the settlers themselves. He is a settler. Uh he lives in a settlement,
35:5735 minutes, 57 secondsone of the most notorious actually. Um and and this is a completely different legal situation and moral situation.
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondsIt's interesting because you at a very surface level you would think that rule by civilians would be softer than rule
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsby a military occupation, but one of the people you spoke to said that settler rule was was much more terrifying than
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondssoldier rule. Why did they how did they explain that? Well, I I I I was on the
36:2636 minutes, 26 secondsbus from um from Ramal to Nablas uh which is a windy old journey these days because you know it takes a bit of time
36:3336 minutes, 33 secondsto avoid all the mess which the Israeli the occupation checkpoints and yeah um but they were talking the people
36:4136 minutes, 41 secondson the bus were saying look it's was on it is now the settlers who rule and the mil and the military were at least
36:4936 minutes, 49 secondsthey were predictable the settlers are completely out of control I you on bus journey. There we are passing to a Messiah where there's constant outrage.
36:5936 minutes, 59 secondsEvery village there's constant out outrages and you can see in the distance a settlements which are violence and they're unregulated. They can do what
37:0737 minutes, 7 secondsthey want. Um and they run the West Bank via via Smidge. You are right that in it sounds like under the old civil
37:1537 minutes, 15 secondsadministration it was called which which meant that it was the civilian arm of the military. It sounded
37:2337 minutes, 23 secondsum and now it's under the under civilian rule. It sounds like it might be better.
37:2837 minutes, 28 secondsIt's not. It's far worse. It's actually terrifying. And it's it's you know the frequently now Israelis are being beaten
37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsup on the West Bank. I mean the Israeli activists or by settlers by settlers I mean and foreign
37:4237 minutes, 42 secondsjournalists are getting beat. It's new this thing. The flags are every these great statements of of the fact that
37:5037 minutes, 50 secondsJudea and Samaria is owned by the settlers. You know that on on Route 60, you know, it's I say less than every
37:5837 minutes, 58 secondshundred yards there's a sorting a great flag on either side of the road.
38:0138 minutes, 1 secondYeah. You described the these flags and posters of of Rabbi what's his name?
38:0638 minutes, 6 secondsRabbi who who is a you know or well he was before he passed away a symbol really of they believe he's the me M messiah and
38:1438 minutes, 14 secondshe's part of a esological thing which is gripping the settlers.
38:1938 minutes, 19 secondsYou shared a piece of graffiti that accompanied one of those posters that really struck me. It said that that that poster was there to remind and this is a
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsquote the residents of the Arab villages of their true destiny to be slaves to the children of Israel. Now I I think
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondsone of the reasons that it sort of struck me as a surprise that you know this civilian rule under Smott is more terrifying than the military rule. One
38:4438 minutes, 44 secondsof the reasons is because when you think of the difference between civilians and military you think about arms an armed military and an unarmed civilian um you
38:5238 minutes, 52 secondsknow body. But this is not the situation in the West Bank is it? The the settlers you saw were heavily armed. What kind of
38:5938 minutes, 59 secondsweaponry do they have? um well basically machine guns and um actually this is more and more common everywhere now you know in occupied East Jerusalem so
39:0739 minutes, 7 secondsyou're seeing settlers with machine gun everywhere and of course they're distributed by um the security minister the other other part of the farright
39:1639 minutes, 16 secondselement of the co coalition which is Benabir and he distributes guns and um it is worth saying that the
39:2539 minutes, 25 secondssmidge is actually doing in the West Bank more or less what that that statement about the children of Israel
39:3239 minutes, 32 secondssays basically he wants to give an option to under the smatri plan which he published a few years ago and it's still
39:4039 minutes, 40 secondsbasically going strong the option for Palestinians in the West Bank is is either to immigrate you'll be helped
39:4739 minutes, 47 secondsthey would be very happy if you was left uh or you become you stay there without rights no vote but you just as a
39:5539 minutes, 55 secondsservants of you know just as non- people which is a pretty intolerable situation for most people and if you accept either of those two options, we'll kill you. You know, you're terrorists and we'll kill you.
40:0340 minutes, 3 secondsSo, that's the three options. Mhm.
40:0540 minutes, 5 secondsUm, and it's being put into effect by the uh by the settlers, although I think actually it's they don't engage, as far as I can tell, they don't really engage.
40:1540 minutes, 15 secondsThey they attack the villages all the time.
40:1940 minutes, 19 secondsAnd where does the Palestinian Authority come into this? Because they have 70,000 soldiers at their disposal. What are
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsthey doing to prevent lawlessness against their the people, you know, their civilians, Palestinians? The Palestinian Authority is a tragedy.
40:3540 minutes, 35 secondsI mean, it was set up around Oslo and the idea was it was going to be the um
40:4140 minutes, 41 secondsnassent new Palestinian state and it was going to be fully in control of area A, the urban places, both um urban areas, both security and administratively.
40:5340 minutes, 53 secondsUm in practice it it is under in control. It has become the kind of uh resident ar the arm of
41:0241 minutes, 2 secondsthe military arm of the Israeli of the Israelis. It works for the Israelis a and I quote
41:1041 minutes, 10 secondsum a member of the Palestinian army saying this that you know we do what we're told by the Israelis and anybody who doesn't agree with that is says it
41:2041 minutes, 20 secondswe don't is a liar. And I suppose that view is is shared by most of the residents you meet in the West.
41:2641 minutes, 26 secondsIt's very ob. I mean the Palestinians in the villages that the settlers come in at night, they steal the flocks, they might kill you, they burn your house
41:3341 minutes, 33 secondsdown, they blow up your car, whatever they do there. There's no way the Palestinian authority is going to send any of it 70,000.
41:4041 minutes, 40 secondsSo really, what Palestin what can Palestinians do? How do they how can they defend themselves and their property from just being violently taken?
41:4841 minutes, 48 secondsIt's very hard actually. uh you there is this feeling of steadfastness.
41:5441 minutes, 54 secondsI went to and you meet it again and again a bit which is a village I visited several times and they got a um a
42:0442 minutes, 4 secondssettlement on the hill above and uh they they got they're des they have to defend their land. They go out
42:1242 minutes, 12 secondson marches to defend their land. So far when I last went there were 16 of them who had been shot dead. Not one of them had had armed been armed. They just if
42:2142 minutes, 21 secondsyou they go some of them will throw stones and burn tires and whatnot, but it's they're not a threat to anyone, but they've been 16 have been killed. Many
42:2842 minutes, 28 secondsof them just sort of minding their own business instead of including one American Turkish American actor.
42:3442 minutes, 34 secondsAnd of course that action is what is often used by Israeli settlers at least, you know, internationally to justify um
42:4342 minutes, 43 secondsthem being armed as well in the West Bank.
42:4642 minutes, 46 secondsYes, indeed. There are I mean there are different strategies adopted by individual villages for instance in Taibbe
42:5442 minutes, 54 secondsum because under Smothides it's enormous expansion in these un unlicensed
43:0243 minutes, 2 secondsoutposts they call them. It starts off with just a caravan on the hill you know on the top of the hill. You got the Palestinian villages normally, you know,
43:1143 minutes, 11 secondson the on the rise where the hills start coming out of the valleys and and then you get another caravan and then they'll start to come down into your land. Um,
43:2043 minutes, 20 secondsand then they'll start just coming into your village burning, stealing your goods, taking away your sheep. Um, and
43:2743 minutes, 27 secondsthat is that is the process. Now, in Taibbe, when I went there a few months ago, they they quite clearly decided and they said, "So, we decided we wouldn't
43:3643 minutes, 36 secondsresist." And so that you get settlers from the neighboring settlement wandering around on their own and stealing things and walking away because
43:4543 minutes, 45 secondsthey they feel invincible. They are invincible. Uh whereas in Burka which I went to, it's very moving. uh you know
43:5243 minutes, 52 secondsthere's a a great in all Palestinian villages there's this wall where these mark the m names of the martyrs and in
44:0044 minutesBuraka they've got a tradition of resistance going back to the British 12 died in the Arab revolt and um in the
44:0944 minutes, 9 seconds30s and a and they have a sign outside their village don't come in stay safe and if the the settlers come in then
44:1744 minutes, 17 secondsthey will there's a WhatsApp group or something and they will all come out.
44:2244 minutes, 22 secondsYou know, obviously some of them get killed, but uh it's it's interesting.
44:2744 minutes, 27 secondsThere's real pride. Lots of them are in Israeli jails. Yeah.
44:3144 minutes, 31 secondsUh in fact, the day I was there last, you know, three of them had just been released.
44:3644 minutes, 36 secondsThe conditions in Israeli jails, we've done quite a lot of coverage on this. It are getting worse and worse. also very
44:4344 minutes, 43 secondslikely to do with that um change in government you describe when Bengavir has becomes well prisons have fallen
44:5044 minutes, 50 secondsunder Bengavir's remmit with this distribution of power and that has led to a systematic culture of sadism as
44:5844 minutes, 58 secondscan I get something off my chest on this please um I've not this enormous row about the flatillaa you all these you know the
45:0645 minutes, 6 secondsBritish foreign secretary and Maloney have all woken up and condemned Benavier for his disgusting behavior. It
45:1345 minutes, 13 secondsis disgusting. But Bengavir has been wandering around has been in charge of these prisons which are torturing people to death and he's mocking prisoners.
45:2245 minutes, 22 secondsHe's he's have shown film of himself like this only before it's been Palestinians. And I'll tell you something else. The people in the flatilla got away with it's like nothing
45:3145 minutes, 31 secondscompared to what the Palestinians were suffering in these jails. Have we had a word of protest from did did our British foreign secretary care about it? No. It
45:4145 minutes, 41 secondshad to be the the white the white Europeans getting mild getting mildly bruised by um a disgusting fascist in
45:5045 minutes, 50 secondsyou know but they never had they reacted to in defect to come to the aid of the
45:5745 minutes, 57 secondspeople who are being brutalized raped etc. I know dying of starvation being beaten to death in in Palest in Israeli jails.
46:0646 minutes, 6 secondsYeah it's hard to argue with that. I mean none of the information is new coming out of Benavir's latest video and really I mean I participated in the
46:1446 minutes, 14 secondsflatillaa and I think that that is what a lot of um passengers felt that they were doing was literally just using their bodies to hold their governments
46:2246 minutes, 22 secondshostage to force their governments to actually speak words of condemnation about even a fraction of the brutality that Palestinians reveal and and perhaps
46:3146 minutes, 31 secondsyou're right perhaps the most revealing part of all of this is that it only happens when It's white people being
46:3846 minutes, 38 secondsviolated. Peter Oorn, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. It is very nice to get a guest in face to face.
46:4546 minutes, 45 secondsUnfortunately, that is all that we have time for on today's
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